The Pit of Misery: Politics and Religion

LyquidMetal said:
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Part of the problem here is that people like this have been told that they are special and no one can tell them otherwise. We are not supposed to body shame them. Purple mohawk on a girl? Perfectly normal! Deviant sexual behavior? A-ok! It goes back to my rant about denying objective truths. It's not a culture war, it's a war on truth and what is real.
 
Nod4Eight said:
Part of the problem here is that people like this have been told that they are special and no one can tell them otherwise. We are not supposed to body shame them. Purple mohawk on a girl? Perfectly normal! Deviant sexual behavior? A-ok! It goes back to my rant about denying objective truths. It's not a culture war, it's a war on truth and what is real.
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Agreed. I call it a Holy War. Objective truth, decency, civility, children and life and love versus lies, decadence, violence, grooming, a cult of death and hate.
 
Nod4Eight said:
Part of the problem here is that people like this have been told that they are special and no one can tell them otherwise. We are not supposed to body shame them. Purple mohawk on a girl? Perfectly normal! Deviant sexual behavior? A-ok! It goes back to my rant about denying objective truths. It's not a culture war, it's a war on truth and what is real.
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Nod4Eight said:
I've had people post that as a response to me several times. I don't know what that means.
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Basically, I'm using it as a way to say that I will not capitulate to the demands that I recognize their untruth.

"Chain of Command" is a two-part episode of the American science fiction television series Star Trek: The Next Generation. It aired as the 10th and 11th episodes of the sixth season, the 136th and 137th episodes of the series.


Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart), Worf (Michael Dorn), and Beverly Crusher (Gates McFadden) are assigned by Starfleet on a covert mission to seek and destroy a Cardassian biological weapons installation on their border world, Celtris III.

After intensive training in the holodeck, Picard, Worf, and Crusher discreetly arrive on Celtris III, and infiltrate the base. However, they find no signs of biological weapons, and suspecting a trap, they attempt to flee. Worf and Crusher escape, but Picard is taken prisoner and brought to Gul Madred (David Warner), who informs him Celtris III was a trap designed to capture Picard.[3]

Madred uses a number of torture methods, including sensory deprivation, sensory bombardment, forced nakedness, stress positions, dehydration, starvation, physical pain, and cultural humiliation to try to gain knowledge of the Federation's plans for Minos Korva. Picard refuses to acknowledge Madred's demand for information. Madred attempts another tactic to break Picard's will: he shows his captive four bright lights, and demands that Picard answer that there are five, inflicting intense pain on Picard if he does not agree.[3]

With word of the failure of the Cardassians to secure Minos Korva, Madred attempts one last ploy to break Picard, by falsely claiming that the Cardassians have taken the planet and that the Enterprise was destroyed in the battle. He offers Picard a choice: to remain in captivity for the rest of his life or live in comfort by admitting that he sees five lights. As Picard momentarily considers the offer, the Cardassian head delegate enters the room and informs Madred that "a ship is waiting to take him back to the Enterprise." Picard realizes he has been duped. As Picard is freed from his bonds and about to be taken away, he turns to Madred and defiantly shouts, "There are four lights!" Picard is returned to Federation custody and reinstated as Captain of the Enterprise. Picard admits privately to Counselor Troi (Marina Sirtis) that he was saved just in the nick of time, as by that point he was broken enough to be willing to say or do anything to make the torture stop – and by the end, he actually believed he could see five lights.[3]

Chain of Command (Star Trek: The Next Generation) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
BlkSabbath74 said:
Basically, I'm using it as a way to say that I will not capitulate to the demands that I recognize their untruth.

"Chain of Command" is a two-part episode of the American science fiction television series Star Trek: The Next Generation. It aired as the 10th and 11th episodes of the sixth season, the 136th and 137th episodes of the series.

Part I[edit]
Jean-Luc Picard (Patrick Stewart), Worf (Michael Dorn), and Beverly Crusher (Gates McFadden) are assigned by Starfleet on a covert mission to seek and destroy a Cardassian biological weapons installation on their border world, Celtris III. In Picard's place, Starfleet assigns Captain Edward Jellico (Ronny Cox), who has a vastly different style of command than the Enterprise crew, particularly William Riker (Jonathan Frakes), are accustomed to. Under Jellico, the Enterprise patrols the border near Minos Korva, a strategically significant Federation planet, and holds negotiations with Cardassian representatives as to the fate of the planet.[3]

After intensive training in the holodeck, Picard, Worf, and Crusher discreetly arrive on Celtris III, and infiltrate the base. However, they find no signs of biological weapons, and suspecting a trap, they attempt to flee. Worf and Crusher escape, but Picard is taken prisoner and brought to Gul Madred (David Warner), who informs him Celtris III was a trap designed to capture Picard.[3]

Part II[edit]
Madred uses a number of torture methods, including sensory deprivation, sensory bombardment, forced nakedness, stress positions, dehydration, starvation, physical pain, and cultural humiliation to try to gain knowledge of the Federation's plans for Minos Korva. Picard refuses to acknowledge Madred's demand for information. Madred attempts another tactic to break Picard's will: he shows his captive four bright lights, and demands that Picard answer that there are five, inflicting intense pain on Picard if he does not agree.[3]

Meanwhile, the Cardassians inform the Enterprise crew that Picard has been captured. Jellico refuses to acknowledge that Picard was on a Starfleet mission, an admission necessary for Picard to be given the rights of a prisoner of war rather than being subjected to torture as a terrorist. This leads to a heated argument between Jellico and Riker, which ends with Jellico relieving Riker of duty and assigning Data as first officer. La Forge detects residue from a nearby nebula on the hull of the Cardassian delegation's ship, and Jellico suspects a Cardassian fleet may attempt to use the cover of the nebula to launch an attack on Minos Korva. Jellico determines that their best course of action is to place mines across the nebula using a shuttlecraft. However, Riker is the most qualified pilot for the mission. Jellico visits Riker in his quarters, where he candidly criticizes Riker's performance as a first officer and Riker does the same for his command style. Jellico asks, rather than orders, Riker to pilot the shuttle. Riker agrees, and he and La Forge successfully lay the minefield. Jellico uses the threat of the minefield to force the Cardassians to disarm and retreat, but not before they release Picard.[3]

With word of the failure of the Cardassians to secure Minos Korva, Madred attempts one last ploy to break Picard, by falsely claiming that the Cardassians have taken the planet and that the Enterprise was destroyed in the battle. He offers Picard a choice: to remain in captivity for the rest of his life or live in comfort by admitting that he sees five lights. As Picard momentarily considers the offer, the Cardassian head delegate enters the room and informs Madred that "a ship is waiting to take him back to the Enterprise." Picard realizes he has been duped. As Picard is freed from his bonds and about to be taken away, he turns to Madred and defiantly shouts, "There are four lights!" Picard is returned to Federation custody and reinstated as Captain of the Enterprise. Picard admits privately to Counselor Troi (Marina Sirtis) that he was saved just in the nick of time, as by that point he was broken enough to be willing to say or do anything to make the torture stop – and by the end, he actually believed he could see five lights.[3]

Chain of Command (Star Trek: The Next Generation) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
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So, basically he's refusing to be gaslit?
 
Nod4Eight said:
So, basically he's refusing to be gaslit?
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Yes...

If you can control a person's perception so completely that you can make them believe something that is clearly not true, you control everything about them and can make them do whatever you want. It also plays in with the idea that the real goal of torture isn't to extract information or whatever other excuses the torturer gives for their actions, it's to destroy a person's will and control them, so they'll say whatever you want.
 
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