Trump is a Clown

Sonny Black said:
https://twitter.com/i/web/status/2062624305565872289
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I just wish that the folks that are saying that Trump is fucking this up would at least put forward their plan for how it would have been over under their leadership. At least that is something that one can talk about and even learn from but everyone likes being a Karen more.
 
batchaps4me said:
I just wish that the folks that are saying that Trump is fucking this up would at least put forward their plan for how it would have been over under their leadership. At least that is something that one can talk about and even learn from but everyone likes being a Karen more.
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That is dangerously close to the trite old cliche of "If you don't vote, you can't complain."

But, as I know you're a sincere guy, I'll attempt to answer the heart of your sentiment.

Realistically, could any of us do "better"? Highly debatable because there is, of course, the reality that no one can enforce their will. Even if they had the "ability", they'd be undermined. By bureaucrats, the opposition, allies and enemies alike, the media, etc. Is Trump trying? Absolutely. I've no doubt. Is he doing the best he can under the conditions? I believe he believes so. The problem is, his bravado and public comments are counter productive. And, before anyone chimes in and tries to correct me, I am a Trump guy (still, although far less so), and "know" his style and game. It's not working here. Its just not. Maybe some of his fanbase still eat it up, but it's hemorrhaging support and outright turning people agaisnt him at home, and doing nothing productive internationally.

I believe he was foolish to ever attack Iran. I think anyone objective would now admit it was a folly, a mistake. And for anyone that wants to cite it as "necessary", he didn't do it in term one or year one of term 2, and he RAIN on no new wars. And, for the record, while I was against it, I wanted us to win, and even support "whatever means necessary" to end it, decisively. Instead we've done half measures...which is the SAME GODDAMNED MISTAKE TRUMP MADE WITH COVID. People are gonna hate Trump wether he pulls out immediately, or nukes them into oblivion, but letting this stagnate...allowing Iran to rebuild, letting the economy tank and people suffer, letting Israel continue to defy, allowing us to look weak, it's worst than either option. In my opinion.

Trump was played like a fiddle to enter this "war", despite how successful we were, militarily. But he's fumbled his handling of it, publicly, wether his behind closed door dealings are successful or not...and we've no reason to believe either is more likely than the other.
 
Toad, first and foremost thanks for the honest and well thought out reply. I shall try to respond in kind:
Toadman005 said:
The problem is, his bravado and public comments are counter productive.
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I disagree in this case, although I generally agree with you on his tone and demeanor. So what is different with his rhetoric on Iran? Simply the culture of the intended targets receiving the messages. You have seen decades of American diplomatic niceties with Iran and witnessed the results. There is a reason nice words don't play well in Tehran and one must speak their language in the way their culture respects.
Toadman005 said:
and he RAIN on no new wars.
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He also ran on the promise that Iran would not be allowed to make a nuke. Did you think he could accomplish the latter without using the military? Now the question to ponder is which promise matters more, and is it possible to keep both? IMHO Iran not getting a nuke is paramount to world peace and our national security (what do you think happens if Iran launches a nuke at Tel Aviv?).
Toadman005 said:
I believe he was foolish to ever attack Iran. I think anyone objective would now admit it was a folly, a mistake.
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No, only the myopic and/or ignorant would admit that IMHO. Trump has done something no POTUS has done since WWII and is using the full force of our economic, diplomatic and military to achieve a goal of no nukes in Iran. This is not Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam and if you can't tell the difference in approaches then I just don't know what to tell you. Now does this mean we won't need a full force invasion and/or that this method is/isn't successful? Not at all but that will be determined later. It's like you want to judge how the cake tastes before the damned thing is baked.

My real question to you is do you think it would be better to let Iran develop a nuke before we act?
 
batchaps4me said:
I just wish that the folks that are saying that Trump is fucking this up would at least put forward their plan for how it would have been over under their leadership. At least that is something that one can talk about and even learn from but everyone likes being a Karen more.
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How about don't pull an Emporer Julian and try to start a war with Persia while there is talk of building a third temple.
 
batchaps4me said:
I just wish that the folks that are saying that Trump is fucking this up would at least put forward their plan for how it would have been over under their leadership. At least that is something that one can talk about and even learn from but everyone likes being a Karen more.
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I want him to stop with the idle threats and promises of a deal. At this point he sounds like an idiot.
 
HuskerBrick said:
How about don't pull an Emporer Julian and try to start a war with Persia while there is talk of building a third temple.
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So what would you do, let Iran get a nuke? Karen, what's you plan? Let me guess, bitch about everything Trump is doing and never offer a thought about what should be done. Typical Democrat Karen.
 
batchaps4me said:
So what would you do, let Iran get a nuke? Karen, what's you plan? Let me guess, bitch about everything Trump is doing and never offer a thought about what should be done. Typical Democrat Karen.
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https://x.com/i/status/2063651794958332145

Iran has been 2 weeks away from a nuke for decades now lol. The guy we took out had a fatwa against nukes. The new guy doesn't and now Iran will be obtaining one no question. Nothing we can do about it either.
 
batchaps4me said:
Toad, first and foremost thanks for the honest and well thought out reply. I shall try to respond in kind:
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Of course. You deserve nothing less, you're a gentleman.
batchaps4me said:
I disagree in this case, although I generally agree with you on his tone and demeanor. So what is different with his rhetoric on Iran? Simply the culture of the intended targets receiving the messages. You have seen decades of American diplomatic niceties with Iran and witnessed the results. There is a reason nice words don't play well in Tehran and one must speak their language in the way their culture respects.
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I am not talking about the way he speaks to Iran. I am referring to his constant rhetoric for the increasingly disenfranchised MAGA base. I'll speak only for myself here. As you know I(I think) I'e always defended Trump's tone as being necessary. Have had countless debates with cav about it, for example. When dealing with liars in the left and carer democrats and bureaucrats and the media that spins everything, his bluntness has served him well. And his trolling is beautiful. His Twitter was crucial in getting him elected both times. But, in this situation it's rubbing people the wrong way. Trump usually can "read the room". But he makes mistakes with his base. Examples are pushing the jab years ago (we all said NO and booed), and poo-pooing the Epstein files (which some shrugged off and others like Bruce lost all support for him over). In this case, most of his base wanted NO WAR, but we supported him IF necessary (I think much of our disagreement on this hinges on that notion...was it necessary?), but it's dragging on and on and on with no end in sight, its hurting us economically, the ceasefires either get violated by our "ally" Israel, or, if Iran does, we look foolish, like they stalled, they (Iran) seem emboldened, etc etc etc to say nothing of motive (was it "they're about to get a nuke"? Or was it "Israel said, "Lol, do what we say Goy Bitch"). I think much of the disgruntlement on OUR part (again, fuck Iran) comes when Trump says the economy is fine, or, he's polling at 99% in Israel, when people can't afford to feed their AMERICAN kids.
batchaps4me said:
He also ran on the promise that Iran would not be allowed to make a nuke. Did you think he could accomplish the latter without using the military? Now the question to ponder is which promise matters more, and is it possible to keep both? IMHO Iran not getting a nuke is paramount to world peace and our national security (what do you think happens if Iran launches a nuke at Tel Aviv?).
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Again, like I say, I think this is where we have different ...not priorities, but, the way we view it. I am 100% against iran getting a nuke. I cannot, however, trust Israeli intel they were about to get one. Israel lies. Always. I'll even cut them the slimmest break because one could argue they HAVE to, if they think the end justifies. But a year ago we supposedly destroyed their ability to create a nuke. So was that a lie? If not, why was the information SO bad then yet so CERTAIN now? Especially since regieme change didn't happen, and nothing THEY said would happen has come to pass? And now, many think Iran HAS a nuclear weapon (or mroe) given to them...if that is the case, than this entire thing was utterly COUNTER productive (to your top priority), and thus, a disaster.

Also, want to reiterate...I was against attacking Iran, but once we did, I was all in. I still would be if we went ALL IN. We're doing half measures. Bomb and gas them until they're all dead, at this point. They've had amble time to surrender, overthrow, or flee.
batchaps4me said:
No, only the myopic and/or ignorant would admit that IMHO. Trump has done something no POTUS has done since WWII and is using the full force of our economic, diplomatic and military to achieve a goal of no nukes in Iran. This is not Iraq, Afghanistan, or Vietnam and if you can't tell the difference in approaches then I just don't know what to tell you.
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I am no modern military historian (antiquity, I am, depending on when/era), and defer to you in knowledge of military anyway given your background, but can you explain to me how or why this is so different? If anything it seems to me this is a worse situation as Iran can shut down the global economy in a way the others could not.
batchaps4me said:
Now does this mean we won't need a full force invasion and/or that this method is/isn't successful? Not at all but that will be determined later. It's like you want to judge how the cake tastes before the damned thing is baked.
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To piggyback on your analogy, I am not trying to judge the cake, but I was promised a cake, I've been waiting for hours, am hungry, and have places to be, and am wondering how much longer it's gonna take. Only so many time the manager can reassure me before I snap or walk. I am, in this analogy, half the MAGA base.
batchaps4me said:
My real question to you is do you think it would be better to let Iran develop a nuke before we act?
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Of course not. But if you're gonna start something, shouldn't you truly finish it?
 
batchaps4me said:
To you and many others, perhaps. But I say again, you are not the intended target for the message and should at least try to understand how the Iranians are taking the banter.
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That is true but middle of the road mid-term voters are listening. May or may not make a difference. My guess is it costs us some votes.
 
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