So, abortion.

Fleckabelly

Fleckabelly

Member
Messages
46
I get the argument that states should choose what they support and shouldn’t have to abide by laws they don’t.

That said, there’s a small problem. One, not everyone has access to be able to drive to the nearest pro choice state. For many, that’s 500-1000 miles. Many of those people will be forced into making far more difficult arrangements to get the abortion. Many others might be young teenagers that don’t want their parents to know. Whether it’s a boyfriend, date rape, incest, or other, many find it something to be ashamed.

The problem here is these situations will likely delay the abortion that otherwise would have likely been an early first trimester termination. I foresee many states becoming last resorts for women and far more late term abortions.

The other issue is that many of these women won’t even have a choice. If they can’t get to these states, they will simply find other unsafe ways to terminate the pregnancy.

Food for thought.
 
Well, you’re making the same more moderate and logical arguments that have been made for 50 years.
Most states won’t fully repeal abortion wholesale- they’ll just scale it way back. First trimester only. But, let’s say for a hypothetical arguments sake a state says no abortion whatsoever, well…so what? Even a poor person can easily get to an adjacent state to get one. Oh, might it be difficult? Sure. And good. It should be. That’s a deterrent from carelessly getting pregnant. And will there be a very small rise in dangerous self abortions? Sure. I’ll take that over a larger percentage of snorted babies. If a girl chooses to stupidly perform self surgery to slaughter her child, she can suffer the potential consequences.
 
Toadman005 said:
Well, you’re making the same more moderate and logical arguments that have been made for 50 years.
Most states won’t fully repeal abortion wholesale- they’ll just scale it way back. First trimester only. But, let’s say for a hypothetical arguments sake a state says no abortion whatsoever, well…so what? Even a poor person can easily get to an adjacent state to get one. Oh, might it be difficult? Sure. And good. It should be. That’s a deterrent from carelessly getting pregnant. And will there be a very small rise in dangerous self abortions? Sure. I’ll take that over a larger percentage of snorted babies. If a girl chooses to stupidly perform self surgery to slaughter her child, she can suffer the potential consequences.
Click to expand...
As long as the things go as you suppose, but that may be far from reality. There’s no doubt that this puts a much longer delay on abortions for women in these states. I can easily see most of the south getting rid of abortions entirely and I know that many will push for it. Both extremes will always push as hard as they can to get what they want.

I also don’t see this as a deterrent. No one is thinking about abortion laws when they are about to fuck. The only person we are penalizing is the kid being born into a society that doesn’t want him. We all know that fatherless homes are to blame for a lot of this country’s problems and our punishment for the kids that fall victim to this cycle is to force them into repeating it for their children.
 
Fleckabelly said:
As long as the things go as you suppose, but that may be far from reality. There’s no doubt that this puts a much longer delay on abortions for women in these states. I can easily see most of the south getting rid of abortions entirely and I know that many will push for it. Both extremes will always push as hard as they can to get what they want.

I also don’t see this as a deterrent. No one is thinking about abortion laws when they are about to fuck. The only person we are penalizing is the kid being born into a society that doesn’t want him. We all know that fatherless homes are to blame for a lot of this country’s problems and our punishment for the kids that fall victim to this cycle is to force them into repeating it for their children.
Click to expand...
I think what you’re supposing is far from reality. If abortion is still legal in a state, merely restricted, it delays nothing. But again - for arguments sake- this hypothetical dirt poor 14 year old pregnant black girl straight A student with a hyper religious father finds herself in deep Mississippi, she could still travel to a state where she could get one. The “delay”would be more an inconvenience than an impossible deterrent.

Speaking of deterrents, don’t give me that crap. People aren’t animals, beastial and unable to resist their urges. At any age. Fear of consequence- disease, pregnancy, punishment, etc are deterrents, often successful ones. Knowing there’s an unpleasant but legal get out of jail consequence enables poor behavior.

And while I agree fatherless homes are the leading cause of crime and societal decay, it doesn’t justify murder. Hell, an unplanned pregnancy often times leads to a boy or man becoming a father. As it is currently men have no say one way or the other anyway. But using societal woes which are far, far, far more complicated and multifaceted than simply “no father” to justify abortion is akin to blaming poverty on racism.
 
Toadman005 said:
I think what you’re supposing is far from reality. If abortion is still legal in a state, merely restricted, it delays nothing. But again - for arguments sake- this hypothetical dirt poor 14 year old pregnant black girl straight A student with a hyper religious father finds herself in deep Mississippi, she could still travel to a state where she could get one. The “delay”would be more an inconvenience than an impossible deterrent.
Click to expand...
I think this is way more common than you think and you are being very shortsighted. traveling across several states or just to one for many is not so simple. Doing that without money and with decent parents isn’t just a school trip.
Toadman005 said:
Speaking of deterrents, don’t give me that crap. People aren’t animals, beastial and unable to resist their urges. At any age. Fear of consequence- disease, pregnancy, punishment, etc are deterrents, often successful ones. Knowing there’s an unpleasant but legal get out of jail consequence enables poor behavior.
Click to expand...
Disagree. Where do you think most abortions come from? The educated? Loving families? It happens far more often to less privileged kids without sufficient supervision, single parent households, etc.. You aren’t going to create much of a difference in pregnancies. Just alternative means to abortion.
Toadman005 said:
And while I agree fatherless homes are the leading cause of crime and societal decay, it doesn’t justify murder. Hell, an unplanned pregnancy often times leads to a boy or man becoming a father. As it is currently men have no say one way or the other anyway. But using societal woes which are far, far, far more complicated and multifaceted than simply “no father” to justify abortion is akin to blaming poverty on racism.
Click to expand...
It’s not murder. It’s an embryo. Whether you consider it a life is up to you, but it’s not equal to a human life.
 
Fleckabelly said:
I think this is way more common than you think and you are being very shortsighted. traveling across several states or just to one for many is not so simple. Doing that without money and with decent parents isn’t just a school trip.

Disagree. Where do you think most abortions come from? The educated? Loving families? It happens far more often to less privileged kids without sufficient supervision, single parent households, etc.. You aren’t going to create much of a difference in pregnancies. Just alternative means to abortion.

It’s not murder. It’s an embryo. Whether you consider it a life is up to you, but it’s not equal to a human life.
Click to expand...
Is GoFundMe not a thing? I doubt very seriously any girl wanting one couldn’t get help. I’d wager you’d even see a sea of grifters pretending to profit off of it.

And be careful, it almost seems as though you’re saying the poor (and I am sure you mean of all races) can’t control themselves and are too stupid to consider ramifications for their actions.

Ah, not equal to human life. According to whom? Are you the arbiter of what does anddoes not constitute human life or is deserving of humanity? Are you hiding behind legality or definition? After all, both are subject to the whim of man. 200 years ago you’d call a slave a tool, and legally be in the right. Did slaves have souls? Were they human? Because killing one wasn’t considered murder.
 
Toadman005 said:
Is GoFundMe not a thing? I doubt very seriously any girl wanting one couldn’t get help. I’d wager you’d even see a sea of grifters pretending to profit off of it.
Click to expand...
Go fund me? Is this a joke?
Toadman005 said:
And be careful, it almost seems as though you’re saying the poor (and I am sure you mean of all races) can’t control themselves and are too stupid to consider ramifications for their actions.
Click to expand...
Huh? i didn’t say anything of the sort. I said that single parents, limited supervision, and lack of good parenting often leads to a lack of understanding about the reality of unprotected sex. Didn’t think I had to spell that out.
Toadman005 said:
Ah, not equal to human life. According to whom? Are you the arbiter of what does anddoes not constitute human life or is deserving of humanity? Are you hiding behind legality or definition? After all, both are subject to the whim of man. 200 years ago you’d call a slave a tool, and legally be in the right. Did slaves have souls? Were they human? Because killing one wasn’t considered murder.
Click to expand...
You tell me. You are in a burning building with a freezer full of embryos and the life of one child. You can only carry a bag of embryos or the child. How many embryos would it take for you to choose the bag of frozen embryos over the child? 10? 100? 1000? A million?

I would always choose the child and so would you. So literally that means that not only is it not equal to the life of an actual child, it’s not even a billionth of the worth of an actual child. The child exists. The embryos only have the potential to exist.
 
You don’t have to be educated on sex to know sec results in a child. Christ it’s annoying how often that tired trope is parroted. Do you believe that? Or was it just drilled into your brain to throw out there? Honestly curious. We’ve had sex Ed for decades now- how’s the abortion rate, single mother rate etc? Things better now than 40 or 50 years ago, or worse? I mean overall…not just in terms of “is it easier for Jenny to kill her baby?”

As to the burning building analogy, that doesn’t mean they’re not human - it just means you made a pragmatic decision, in the same burning building scenario I’d save a child over an adult, a woman over a man, a younger person over an elder, an able bodied over a cripple, etc. That doesn’t mean any of their lives are more valuable than the other, it’s just making a tough decision based on the situation. But by your phrasing, do you support late term abortion? After all a ten minutes til birth baby doesn’t exist yet, it just has the potential to.
 
You started off with many assumptions.

For starters, I am anti abortion 100% of the time. But for the sake of argument, you mentioned rape and incest. That's less than 1% of all abortions. So, would pro-choice be willing to give up all other abortions if rape/incest abortions were allowed?

I've personally known several people who were the product of rape. They were all happy to he alive and had mothers that loved them.
 
Fleckabelly said:
As long as the things go as you suppose, but that may be far from reality. There’s no doubt that this puts a much longer delay on abortions for women in these states. I can easily see most of the south getting rid of abortions entirely and I know that many will push for it. Both extremes will always push as hard as they can to get what they want.

I also don’t see this as a deterrent. No one is thinking about abortion laws when they are about to fuck. The only person we are penalizing is the kid being born into a society that doesn’t want him. We all know that fatherless homes are to blame for a lot of this country’s problems and our punishment for the kids that fall victim to this cycle is to force them into repeating it for their children.
Click to expand...
You're right. Maybe our society has become so self serving that it's beyond the point of return. Why should anyone think about the consequences of entering into an adult relationship? Heaven forbid we encourage the fathers to stick around. For fucks sake Fleck, why should we ever expect to hold people accountable for their actions?

This society the left has fostered is what will kill this nation. Grow a pair of balls and be accountable for your actions. Yes, this means you, Fleck.
 
Toadman005 said:
You don’t have to be educated on sex to know sec results in a child. Christ it’s annoying how often that tired trope is parroted. Do you believe that? Or was it just drilled into your brain to throw out there? Honestly curious. We’ve had sex Ed for decades now- how’s the abortion rate, single mother rate etc? Things better now than 40 or 50 years ago, or worse? I mean overall…not just in terms of “is it easier for Jenny to kill her baby?”
Click to expand...
It’s not that people don’t know or understand, it’s the difference in many different aspects that I mentioned. Less supervision that leads to a different environment all around in poorer neighborhoods. Generational poverty. There’s a much different view of teenage pregnancy and unwed mothers between poor areas and affluent areas.
Toadman005 said:
As to the burning building analogy, that doesn’t mean they’re not human - it just means you made a pragmatic decision, in the same burning building scenario I’d save a child over an adult, a woman over a man, a younger person over an elder, an able bodied over a cripple, etc. That doesn’t mean any of their lives are more valuable than the other, it’s just making a tough decision based on the situation. But by your phrasing, do you support late term abortion? After all a ten minutes til birth baby doesn’t exist yet, it just has the potential to.
Click to expand...
No, because I accept what I don’t know and believe a logical answer exists in society.

You save the child vs the man, woman, or elder because it has longer to live. But that’s not a value.

If you could save 10 babies or 1 child, you’d save the babies. That’s common sense. If you had the choice between a million embryos or one child, you’d save the child. The reason is simple. They don’t exist yet and the babies do.
 
Fleckabelly said:
I think this is way more common than you think and you are being very shortsighted. traveling across several states or just to one for many is not so simple. Doing that without money and with decent parents isn’t just a school trip.

Disagree. Where do you think most abortions come from? The educated? Loving families? It happens far more often to less privileged kids without sufficient supervision, single parent households, etc.. You aren’t going to create much of a difference in pregnancies. Just alternative means to abortion.

It’s not murder. It’s an embryo. Whether you consider it a life is up to you, but it’s not equal to a human life.
Click to expand...
If its not human, what is it? A duck? A fucking platypus? Of course it's a human fetus. Dehumanizing it is like taking a page out of a slave owner handbook - "this slave isn't human." Or do you prefer to be a Nazi - "these Jews aren't human" For fucks sake Fleck, you are saying the unique human DNA isn't a human?
 
Nod4Eight said:
You're right. Maybe our society has become so self serving that it's beyond the point of return. Why should anyone think about the consequences of entering into an adult relationship? Heaven forbid we encourage the fathers to stick around. For fucks sake Fleck, why should we ever expect to hold people accountable for their actions?

This society the left has fostered is what will kill this nation. Grow a pair of balls and be accountable for your actions. Yes, this means you, Fleck.
Click to expand...
Who are you holding accountable? The mother or the unwanted child? Your punishment is forcing a child into the world that will have a much higher chance of being raped, beaten, without parents, without a father, much more prone to suicide, prone to crime, etc.. All the mother “is held accountable for” is birthing the child. Then she’s done and the child goes on to likely repeat the same cycle in 15 years.

Do you want to help that child? Do you want to feed him? Provide day care? Housing? Do you want to clothe it? Because most Republicans don’t seem to care at that point. Most consider it a leach on society, right?

If you want accountability, then see it through Nod. If you think you know more about each situation than the mother and her doctor and that you should decide what’s best rather than them, why don’t you support that child since she admitted isn’t going to?
 
Nod4Eight said:
If its not human, what is it? A duck? A fucking platypus? Of course it's a human fetus. Dehumanizing it is like taking a page out of a slave owner handbook - "this slave isn't human." Or do you prefer to be a Nazi - "these Jews aren't human" For fucks sake Fleck, you are saying the unique human DNA isn't a human?
Click to expand...
It’s an embryo. Jews are people. Do you understand the difference?
 
Fleckabelly said:
It’s not that people don’t know or understand, it’s the difference in many different aspects that I mentioned. Less supervision that leads to a different environment all around in poorer neighborhoods. Generational poverty. There’s a much different view of teenage pregnancy and unwed mothers between poor areas and affluent areas.

No, because I accept what I don’t know and believe a logical answer exists in society.

You save the child vs the man, woman, or elder because it has longer to live. But that’s not a value.

If you could save 10 babies or 1 child, you’d save the babies. That’s common sense. If you had the choice between a million embryos or one child, you’d save the child. The reason is simple. They don’t exist yet and the babies do.
Click to expand...
Honestly I don’t know. I’m not the guy to make this argument to. I’m the last guy, most likely. My wife and I had to go through IVF. You think I wouldn’t save our frozen embryos over someone else’s kid? I honestly can’t say.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top