ND left out of Playoffs, Bama gets in

batchaps4me said:
I really don't disagree with much you say here and I understand your perspective even where I disagree. I understand your pride (pride might not be the right word but I hope you get my gist) in being independent and the freedoms and other benefits associated with it. But you can't have it both ways and one of the most important negatives is that when the committee does meet, you have no friends in the room. It's not hate, it's math.
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You ain't wrong there. ND has no friends.

I still just dont get why everyone has this line in the sand hate that ND is indy. It literally changes nothing for any other team. Other than some weird version of 1948 style conformity kick.
 
batchaps4me said:
Allow me to ask you if you think there is any validity to some of the criticisms and perceptions of ND football?
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Depends. Are you going to talk about ND as it is today in this system. Or are you going to talk about the Charlie Weis years?

Because heres my thing. If you dont like ND dont like them. There are enough reasons not to like them. There are plenty of teams I dont like. But I couldn't possibly care less what conference they are or arent in. When ND does well it is always some excuse of the opponent not being good enough or not wanting to be there, or that 1 injury otherwise ND would have lost. But when ND loses. They do it alone, and in a huge spot light so I do think they sometimes get unfairly judged when they can't just rally behind the king of the conference.

Great example. When ND beat Georgia last year it was all about injuries and Georgia would have dominated with their starters. But when ND loses the other year against Clemson or Bama in the 4 team playoff they shouldn't have ever been there. Football is about match ups. And in the last 15 years ND has never had a problem getting high caliber starters. However they haven't had coaches that can build up the roster and make the 2s and 3s good ebough. So when a starter went out it just became a blow out.

And also why I couldn't stand B Kelly.
 
batchaps4me said:
Perhaps not to the degree that suits you, but they lost a first round home game if not a bye for losing so they were punished. If you thank a playoff spot was a reward for playing for and losing a conference championship, what do you call giving the playoff spot to a team not good enough to play for a conference championship?

EDIT: No offense intended @della, I just think you may be using the word rewarded a bit loosely.
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First of all the optics of losing are not the same. BYU got clobbered and bama lost soundly. Both games were hardly overtime thrillers. The final vote made it clear that the measuring stick had no digits on it. When one of the two best teams clearly isn't all that good, it should matter.

No offense taken my friend, but no action is an action thus reward.
 
Irishblooded said:
Depends. Are you going to talk about ND as it is today in this system. Or are you going to talk about the Charlie Weis years?
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Let's say historically, basically over the course of our lifetimes and those that shaped our first memories of football. I am talking about the program as a whole, not individual teams or seasons. If you will, give me the day and I will try to write my thesis on ND hate. The short answer is you are a victim of your own success and football became a big money based business. With apologies to Leon Schlessinger, let me say, we're businessmen. Perhaps I should quit watching SOC 119 on YouTube while on edibles ...
 
della said:
First of all the optics of losing are not the same. BYU got clobbered and bama lost soundly. Both games were hardly overtime thrillers.
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I agree. What was the results in Norman, South Bend, or Miami that day? My perspective is that Bama and BYU were ranked high enough to make the CFP at the end of the regular season and both lost to higher ranked teams so they shouldn't be punished.
della said:
No offense taken my friend, but no action is an action thus reward.
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I just tend to beat a dead horse, accidentally. When not talking face to face, I tend overlook the point where you, and everyone else, understands my point but simply disagrees. Skills have never been my strong suit ...
 
batchaps4me said:
I agree. What was the results in Norman, South Bend, or Miami that day? My perspective is that Bama and BYU were ranked high enough to make the CFP at the end of the regular season and both lost to higher ranked teams so they shouldn't be punished.

I just tend to beat a dead horse, accidentally. When not talking face to face, I tend overlook the point where you, and everyone else, understands my point but simply disagrees. Skills have never been my strong suit ...
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However, character is your strong suit and that is one of the reasons I'm so fond of you. We just disagree and there is nothing wrong about that.
 
Bama Believer said:
Well I've thoroughly enjoyed reading y'all's thoughts on this, refreshing to see actual respectful debate. Kudos to you all 💯 🔥
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Thanks. I generally get in my own way and prevent it, but once in a blue moon my medicine and level of adult supervision aligns just right. @Irishblooded amazes me with his communication skills and cool demeanor discussing passionate topics. @della reminds me so much of the women I looked up to in my family when I was growing up.
 
batchaps4me said:
Thanks. I generally get in my own way and prevent it, but once in a blue moon my medicine and level of adult supervision aligns just right. @Irishblooded amazes me with his communication skills and cool demeanor discussing passionate topics. @della reminds me so much of the women I looked up to in my family when I was growing up.
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I agree, @Irishblooded comes across as an old dude filled with wisdom, I was surprised to see how young he is! and @della reminds me of the great state of Tennessee from memphis to the Smokies. You just have to figure out how to look past that orange excuse for a football team that somehow sprang up ! Lol
 
batchaps4me said:
Let's say historically, basically over the course of our lifetimes and those that shaped our first memories of football. I am talking about the program as a whole, not individual teams or seasons. If you will, give me the day and I will try to write my thesis on ND hate. The short answer is you are a victim of your own success and football became a big money based business. With apologies to Leon Schlessinger, let me say, we're businessmen. Perhaps I should quit watching SOC 119 on YouTube while on edibles ...
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They are. And you are right. For years they were blighted and segregated by the Big 10. And that caused them to find other avenues to success. And they created a model that allowed it. But it wasnt the same model Michigan, Ohio St, USC, Bama, Texas used. So somehow it is cast as wrong. And I never got that. ND spent decades trying to join and kept getting chased out. But now everyone is mad they won't just conform. This isn't a grudge thing. What college football did to ND made the identity of who ND at their heart is.

I am the first to agree that there have been years ND was over ranked. And got shown inferior in their bowl. The Sugar against LSU post Katrina being a star example.

Here is the example I use. Remember when we were all 'forced' to use the new light bulbs and all the push back people gave. Because they hated to be told what they were going to do. I bet 75% of those same people now, still buy the new light bulbs because they have had the chance to see the pro and con and make their own decision on it. ND is the same way. The more the establishment goes on TV complaining that ND has to confirm the likely it is to happen. They will burn the whole bowl system down first. And they are one of the schools that legit can do it. They could not make a dollar from ESPiN and still be as profitable as most P4 schools.
 
I will say this.

Big picutre. Ans not trying to paint ND as a martyr of some kind. But the big picutre is that ND was finally on the losing end of what has happened to other schools. Auburn a bit back, Georgia, FSU, and even BYU this year.

The difference is. And I am willing to guarantee when it happened to those schools. The ADs contacted their commissioner and gave them an earful and were told basically to sit down and shut up because there is a bigger scheme to this and they had to play their part.

ND doesnt have that. They dont rely on that conference money or the ESPiN payout. Because they are blessed with their own TV contract. And that puts them in a terrific and unique position. And if you listen to those arguments against what ND has done. See how many of them get ESPiN money.

I would love to see ND play a bowl. Im a college football fan. I want to see as many games as possible. But even though that is my personal opinion. I still understand why ND is willing to burn the bridge they are standing on. And honestly I hope and think it could make everyone have a better system in the future.
 
Irishblooded said:
They are. And you are right. For years they were blighted and segregated by the Big 10. And that caused them to find other avenues to success. And they created a model that allowed it. But it wasnt the same model Michigan, Ohio St, USC, Bama, Texas used. So somehow it is cast as wrong. And I never got that. ND spent decades trying to join and kept getting chased out. But now everyone is mad they won't just conform. This isn't a grudge thing. What college football did to ND made the identity of who ND at their heart is
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My perspective is that great programs get a lot of benefit of doubt and deservedly so. I used the subjective word "great" so let me define that as competing on a national championship level fairly consistently over time, with a few natties here and there. ND earned that BOD in the 70s and 80s and leveraged it probably a bit longer than warranted in the bowl coalition era for my liking. The truth be told I had a lot of visceral hate for the favoritism ND had during this time and I wasn't the only one. It was a cultural movement in my chunk the deep south. Looking back at the root cause, I was actually just pissed because your program did a better job in admin/PR/negotiations than anyone else and especially mine. ND as a program earned what they got and I was a bit misguided at the time. I feel the same about the ACC and Miami this season. I don't recall anyone being pissed at GT during this timeframe, oddly enough.

I also now believe you are now getting to the position that the SEC was in at the end of the coalition era whereas you have lost the BOD and it's going to take a deep run or two to in the playoffs to get it back. I do believe that NCAAF is at it's best when ND, USC, Nebraska, and some others are competing at the highest levels. What I fear is that ND missteps during this era of change and the coming super conferences and ends up going the way of Harvard and Yale.
 
I’ll say this, it’s a good thing that someone with clout is telling the powers that be they won’t necessarily play the game if the rules are fluid. As in ND is literally telling them “No, we won’t play!”.

We can debate who deserves what, or point out other teams with current or past grievances, but ND is forcing a conversation on clarity of rankings going forward.

It’s a good thing for everyone going forward if they know what they need to do to compete in the CFP. That’s a big “IF” on whether that happens.
 
Shower Fart said:
I’ll say this, it’s a good thing that someone with clout is telling the powers that be they won’t necessarily play the game if the rules are fluid. As in ND is literally telling them “No, we won’t play!”.

We can debate who deserves what, or point out other teams with current or past grievances, but ND is forcing a conversation on clarity of rankings going forward.

It’s a good thing for everyone going forward if they know what they need to do to compete in the CFP. That’s a big “IF” on whether that happens.
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I'm of the opinion that yes the conservation is good but I am pessimistic about the outcome. IMHO whether we are picking 2 teams or 64, voting them in or assigning a number of slots for each conference, there is always going to be outrage at the bubble. I am concerned for ND because if anyone gets shot, it's normally the person first through the door and ND doesn't have any friends running backup.
 
batchaps4me said:
I'm of the opinion that yes the conservation is good but I am pessimistic about the outcome. IMHO whether we are picking 2 teams or 64, voting them in or assigning a number of slots for each conference, there is always going to be outrage at the bubble. I am concerned for ND because if anyone gets shot, it's normally the person first through the door and ND doesn't have any friends running backup.
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The ND AD is holding a press conference at noon. Since he’s already released statements and done interviews stating his disagreement with missing the CFP, maybe he says something of substance.

But this carve out that they were given isn’t going to earn them any sympathy:

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Shower Fart said:
The ND AD is holding a press conference at noon. Since he’s already released statements and done interviews stating his disagreement with missing the CFP, maybe he says something of substance.

But this carve out that they were given isn’t going to earn them any sympathy:

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I thoroughly disagree with the substance of that memo. There should be no carveouts or advance understandings for any team.
 
batchaps4me said:
I thoroughly disagree with the substance of that memo. There should be no carveouts or advance understandings for any team.
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It isn't worth spit. Because as we found out last week. Where you are ranked on any given day is completely at the mercy of a group of people behind locked doors. ND could be ranked in the top 5 at the beginning of CCG week. And the ranked 14th after sitting idle. Look at Georgia the other year. They lost a competitive CCG and still lost what 4 or 5 spots.

In my eyes. The playoff rankings should be defined by metrics and points. I.e. you get X points for defeating an end of year P4 team with an over .500 record. You get points for winning a CCG. You get points high ranked overall offense or defense without including any metric from a win over a FCS or D2 school, etc.

Im not a fan of MoV. Only because take the Pitt game. ND allowed a garbage TD vs their 2s and 3s in literally the last 5 seconds of the game. Allowing the MoV to be smaller than Miami who played Pitt later in the season and had their starters in throwing bombs down the field in the closing minutes of the 4th quarter to make the win look better than NDs. Whereas if you and look at the full box score you can see ND without a doubt beat Pitt better than Miami did. And I am sure there are plenty of other examples of that.
 
I dont know if anything of non ND importance will be said. But the ND AD is doing a press conference at noon. Here is the link.

But I will say some of his language on talk shows this week has been far more cryptic than he normally presents himself.

www.youtube.com

Pete Bevacqua Press Conference (12.9.25) | Notre Dame Athletics

James E. Rohr Director of Athletics Pete Bevacqua speaks with the media at a December 9 press conference inside the Joyce Center.SUBSCRIBE → https://goiri.sh...
www.youtube.com www.youtube.com
 
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