The Pit of Misery: Politics and Religion

You don't know Iowa very well. I'm a Iowa fan, born and raised. Iowa football is the biggest thing in the state, 2nd would be bball and then wrestling. These athletes are the darlings of the fans, they are idolized by kids the state over, and judging by message boards, and experience with fans my whole life, a healthy population of adults as well. Those athletes are celebrities to alot of people here. Hell I've seen it with my own eyes, a popular athlete walking around and people giving them well wishes. I don't personally do the celebrity thing. Everyone is a person to me, yep you are a better athlete, you are smarter, you can act, you can sing, to me it doesn't matter, what matters is your actions and respect for your fellow man. Aka what kind of person you are.
You state "But previous ways haven’t been working either. As mentioned before."
I would disagree some here, minorities have never had more access to education, jobs, housing, wealth, social status. I would say society has come a long way since the 50s. Is there work to do yet in some areas, sure, but to say that nothing has worked is disingenuous and ignores the gains that have happened and minimizes the hard work that people have done to better themselves and society.

Yes, we have come along way? How? Was it through natural, evolution? Actions that were slow and developed over time and done peacefully and without division and controversy?

No, they were done through radical, revolution that was controversial and divisive. That’s how things get done in this country, always have, and most likely always will.
 
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Out of curiosity? When is the right time to when the discussion? The players do a non violent protest, silently, people bitch. They do peaceful marches, people bitch. Violence erupts, people bitch. They post on social media, people bitch. They say something to the media, people bitch.


The truth is, people don’t want to hear messages they don’t agree with, anytime.
"The players do a non violent protest,"

If a violent, angry reaction is generated by many of those present, then it is NOT a non-violent protest.

"They do peaceful marches,"

Peaceful marches that attack people, public buildings, and private property are NOT peaceful protests. Peaceful marchers do just that, march peacefully.

"Violence erupts"

Violence is typically met with violence. That is a non-starter, unless you're in open rebellion against your government. The U. S. government has dealt with that before with sending in the military, with 15 years of war and occupation.

As to media, in general, it is saturated with trolls, half-truths, and blatant lies, to the point that anyone young is clueless to what is actually the truth. The youth trying to figure this out are the same geniuses that eat tide pods, need safe spaces, and other acts of lunacy. Everyone in the streets last week were college age, or even younger. No 70 year old pastors in a three piece suit throwing a molotov cocktail. These young people have shrugged off the teachings of the era of Dr. MLK ( their great grandparents). The middle aged and older are protesting George Floyd's killing, as they should, but they are noticeably vacant from the violence, again, as they should be. The hypocrisy is their resistance to openly try to convince the rioters to stop the violence, per Dr. King's teachings. They know they have a lot to lose if they screw it up. BLM is directly contrary to Dr. Kings teachings. He preached a day when people were judged by their character, not their skin color. BLM pushes black skin ONLY matters. I firmly believe he would be in their faces big time, if still living. The age disparity points out the young progressives versus old conservatives. The Dr. King followers were the young progressives of the 50's-60's, they have grown up to be the old conservatives (obviously, not talking old white conservatives). That what everyone misses, the current old were the previous young. It literally takes time to gain wisdom.


"The truth is, people don’t want to hear messages they don’t agree with, anytime."

Wrong. I spent my entire career addressing complaints. Sometime people complain and they are right, and the issue is addressed. Sometimes people are wrong, but firmly believe they are right, and you have to patiently explain why they are wrong. Most finally get it, some don't immediately, but eventually do after seeking another opinion. Some are intentionally dishonest and try to scam the system to make a buck, or get a concession dishonestly. That's one of the biggest problems, no one has patience to reach the ultimate truth. I have always been receptive to discussion. I'm not going to necessarily agree with you (especially if you try to convince me 1+1=3), but I will hear you out. Problem today is lack of dialog, blinders go on, ears get plugged the second they hear a differing opinion. If you cannot discover common items that both agree on, you will fail to reach a consensus. Dialog is necessary.

When is a good time to have a discussion?

The better question is: When is it a bad time to have a discussion? Perhaps interrupting a brain surgeon during brain surgery is bad. Perhaps interrupting first responders extricating a person from a burning vehicle is bad. Perhaps during a graveside funeral service is bad. Perhaps during the exchange of vows at a wedding is bad. Where's the cutoff of not being a bad time? Simplist I can make it (there are far too many nuances to give an exact answer.) is whether it's an inconvenience, or an imposition. If a peaceful march causes me to cut around a couple of blocks, that's an inconvenience. No problem, carry on. If you shut down an interstate and ambulances and fire trucks have to significantly detour, that's an unfair imposition. Same goes for a discussion. You are not likely to have a receptive audience if walk up to a guy and kick him in balls, before saying anything. That's an imposition that will generate a violent reaction.

That last sentence harkens back to the protests during the National Anthem/Star bangled banner tribute to America and those who fell in her defense. The disruption of a tribute to America's fallen is a despicable act. Read through before getting your panties in a wad. It won't necessarily change your mind, but you'll know where I'm coming from. Two wrongs don't make a right. Any mother whose buried their veteran child will very much perceive a protest during the tribute as a violent attack, as if physically slapped. I am not a veteran, but my family has been spilling blood in America's defense for 400 years, both country and colony. Starting in 1610, to today. I've lost family to Native uprisings in Virginia and North Carolina, Spanish attacks in Virginia, several in the French and Indian War (cousins tomahawked in Kentucky), had family on both sides, in Revolutionary War, mostly patriots, a War of 1812 veteran that was a Lieutenant on Commodore Chauncey's flagship during the Great Lake's campaign, who followed the Commodore to the Mediterranean Squadron, surviving both Barbary Wars and dying in 1817 patroling for treaty breakers. Another War of 1812 veteran (survived) that was a Lieutenant on the USS Carolina at the Battle of New Orleans, decimated British troops three days before the battle, attacked British during battle, British "hotshot" started a fire and they abandoned ship. A family member died at the Alamo, distant cousins fought in the Mexican War, both the Union and Confederates had some of my family representing, family in the Spanish-American War, family fighting the Moro in the Philippines, a cousin buried in Meuse Argonne Cemetery in France WWI, grandmother's brother killed in France, near the border with Germany in WWII, a great uncle trapped below the waterline of an aircraft carrier for 2.5 hours while listing 19 degrees, cousins in Vietnam.

Sorry for long history lesson, just want to make it VIVIDLY clear that that moment of tribute means a lot more than just a piece of cloth and a few notes of music. I have been known to "remind" some (in a non-violent way😁) to shut their mouth, remove their hats and pay respect for a few moments.
 
"The players do a non violent protest,"

If a violent, angry reaction is generated by many of those present, then it is NOT a non-violent protest.

"They do peaceful marches,"

Peaceful marches that attack people, public buildings, and private property are NOT peaceful protests. Peaceful marchers do just that, march peacefully.

"Violence erupts"

Violence is typically met with violence. That is a non-starter, unless you're in open rebellion against your government. The U. S. government has dealt with that before with sending in the military, with 15 years of war and occupation.

As to media, in general, it is saturated with trolls, half-truths, and blatant lies, to the point that anyone young is clueless to what is actually the truth. The youth trying to figure this out are the same geniuses that eat tide pods, need safe spaces, and other acts of lunacy. Everyone in the streets last week were college age, or even younger. No 70 year old pastors in a three piece suit throwing a molotov cocktail. These young people have shrugged off the teachings of the era of Dr. MLK ( their great grandparents). The middle aged and older are protesting George Floyd's killing, as they should, but they are noticeably vacant from the violence, again, as they should be. The hypocrisy is their resistance to openly try to convince the rioters to stop the violence, per Dr. King's teachings. They know they have a lot to lose if they screw it up. BLM is directly contrary to Dr. Kings teachings. He preached a day when people were judged by their character, not their skin color. BLM pushes black skin ONLY matters. I firmly believe he would be in their faces big time, if still living. The age disparity points out the young progressives versus old conservatives. The Dr. King followers were the young progressives of the 50's-60's, they have grown up to be the old conservatives (obviously, not talking old white conservatives). That what everyone misses, the current old were the previous young. It literally takes time to gain wisdom.


"The truth is, people don’t want to hear messages they don’t agree with, anytime."

Wrong. I spent my entire career addressing complaints. Sometime people complain and they are right, and the issue is addressed. Sometimes people are wrong, but firmly believe they are right, and you have to patiently explain why they are wrong. Most finally get it, some don't immediately, but eventually do after seeking another opinion. Some are intentionally dishonest and try to scam the system to make a buck, or get a concession dishonestly. That's one of the biggest problems, no one has patience to reach the ultimate truth. I have always been receptive to discussion. I'm not going to necessarily agree with you (especially if you try to convince me 1+1=3), but I will hear you out. Problem today is lack of dialog, blinders go on, ears get plugged the second they hear a differing opinion. If you cannot discover common items that both agree on, you will fail to reach a consensus. Dialog is necessary.

When is a good time to have a discussion?

The better question is: When is it a bad time to have a discussion? Perhaps interrupting a brain surgeon during brain surgery is bad. Perhaps interrupting first responders extricating a person from a burning vehicle is bad. Perhaps during a graveside funeral service is bad. Perhaps during the exchange of vows at a wedding is bad. Where's the cutoff of not being a bad time? Simplist I can make it (there are far too many nuances to give an exact answer.) is whether it's an inconvenience, or an imposition. If a peaceful march causes me to cut around a couple of blocks, that's an inconvenience. No problem, carry on. If you shut down an interstate and ambulances and fire trucks have to significantly detour, that's an unfair imposition. Same goes for a discussion. You are not likely to have a receptive audience if walk up to a guy and kick him in balls, before saying anything. That's an imposition that will generate a violent reaction.

That last sentence harkens back to the protests during the National Anthem/Star bangled banner tribute to America and those who fell in her defense. The disruption of a tribute to America's fallen is a despicable act. Read through before getting your panties in a wad. It won't necessarily change your mind, but you'll know where I'm coming from. Two wrongs don't make a right. Any mother whose buried their veteran child will very much perceive a protest during the tribute as a violent attack, as if physically slapped. I am not a veteran, but my family has been spilling blood in America's defense for 400 years, both country and colony. Starting in 1610, to today. I've lost family to Native uprisings in Virginia and North Carolina, Spanish attacks in Virginia, several in the French and Indian War (cousins tomahawked in Kentucky), had family on both sides, in Revolutionary War, mostly patriots, a War of 1812 veteran that was a Lieutenant on Commodore Chauncey's flagship during the Great Lake's campaign, who followed the Commodore to the Mediterranean Squadron, surviving both Barbary Wars and dying in 1817 patroling for treaty breakers. Another War of 1812 veteran (survived) that was a Lieutenant on the USS Carolina at the Battle of New Orleans, decimated British troops three days before the battle, attacked British during battle, British "hotshot" started a fire and they abandoned ship. A family member died at the Alamo, distant cousins fought in the Mexican War, both the Union and Confederates had some of my family representing, family in the Spanish-American War, family fighting the Moro in the Philippines, a cousin buried in Meuse Argonne Cemetery in France WWI, grandmother's brother killed in France, near the border with Germany in WWII, a great uncle trapped below the waterline of an aircraft carrier for 2.5 hours while listing 19 degrees, cousins in Vietnam.

Sorry for long history lesson, just want to make it VIVIDLY clear that that moment of tribute means a lot more than just a piece of cloth and a few notes of music. I have been known to "remind" some (in a non-violent way😁) to shut their mouth, remove their hats and pay respect for a few moments.


I suggest you listen to Malcolm Jenkins and Wendell Pierce talk about their grandfathers, who fought for this country, only to come home to the same oppression they were fighting for over in Europe and Korea. And why the “my family fought for this country” argument tends to fall flat for some or why there is no monopoly on what honoring the men and women truly means.

And I’ve had several family member serve in various wars over the years. I stand for the Flag. But I don’t believe my feelings or emotions are consistent for anyone else nor would I expect them to be.
 
Never suggested anything but my family's history in defending America. I'm just relaying family history I've personally researched.

As a kid, my next door neighbor was black veteran of WWI. One of the nicest, friendliest persons I've ever met, bar none. My great uncle (the one on the carrier) would pick him up for veteran meetings, and also take him for a steak dinner on veterans day. I can't speak for what happened to him on his returned from Europe in 1918-9. But he was respected and treated well after WWII, by my uncle.
 
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Al Sharpton demands the nfl give Kaepernick a job.
If he was a good qb, no demands would be needed.
If he hadn't disrespected our Flag, a demand would not be needed.
Sounds like affirmative action.
Speaking of, why is this not being talked about?
In my younger days, someone, who was not qualified, got the job over me. Because of a mandatory percentage quota.
Isn't hiring someone because of their color, just as discriminating?
 
Al Sharpton demands the nfl give Kaepernick a job.
If he was a good qb, no demands would be needed.
If he hadn't disrespected our Flag, a demand would not be needed.
Sounds like affirmative action.
Speaking of, why is this not being talked about?
In my younger days, someone, who was not qualified, got the job over me. Because of a mandatory percentage quota.
Isn't hiring someone because of their color, just as discriminating?

Because, as any legitimate NFL fan can tell you, there are not 64 QB’s better than him in the league. He deserves a “job” on ability.
 
Imo, peaceful protests can be productive. And can work.
When the deaths of a few, are used to justify rioting and looting, burning cities down, assaulting LEO'S, the original message is lost. And will not get sympathetic support from the masses. Actually, I believe it will make people against their cause, because of it.
 
"Deserves"?
How?
His stats are not very good. Everyone has ability. He doesn't "deserve " anything.

His stats are up and down, in large part cause Chip Kelly is a moron. But they’re more than serviceable compare to others.

If based on ability: Arm Strength, Mobility, Fit in Modern Spread offenses, game experience, starting history, he is more than deserving of a back up role and challenging for a starting role on bottom tier teams.

You can say he doesn’t get a job because of his controversy. That’s more than understanding. And in fact, can be agree upon. And more than not something he chose to die on.

But people to pretend he’s not good enough to play in a league where trash like Colt McCoy, Brain Hoyer, Sean Mannion, Bret Hundley amongst many others have jobs is just downright insulting to people’s intelligence.
 
His stats are up and down, in large part cause Chip Kelly is a moron. But they’re more than serviceable compare to others.

If based on ability: Arm Strength, Mobility, Fit in Modern Spread offenses, game experience, starting history, he is more than deserving of a back up role and challenging for a starting role on bottom tier teams.

You can say he doesn’t get a job because of his controversy. That’s more than understanding. And in fact, can be agree upon. And more than not something he chose to die on.

But people to pretend he’s not good enough to play in a league where trash like Colt McCoy, Brain Hoyer, Sean Mannion, Bret Hundley amongst many others have jobs is just downright insulting to people’s intelligence.
Remember a few years ago when you and Autzen were sooooo sure UCLA would be dominant in the Pac 12 and Oregon was done (I took the opposite position)? When did you sour on Chip?
 
Remember a few years ago when you and Autzen were sooooo sure UCLA would be dominant in the Pac 12 and Oregon was done (I took the opposite position)? When did you sour on Chip?

When he went 7-17 in the last two years and has learned nothing from his failures in the NFL as far as communication.

It wasn’t a reach to think two years ago that Chip could still be a productive College Coach and it’s not like there isn’t an abundant amount of talent in Southern California.

He’s clearly however not learned from his stubbornness that for him in trouble with the NFL.
 
When he went 7-17 in the last two years and has learned nothing from his failures in the NFL as far as communication.

It wasn’t a reach to think two years ago that Chip could still be a productive College Coach and it’s not like there isn’t an abundant amount of talent in Southern California.

He’s clearly however not learned from his stubbornness that for him in trouble with the NFL.
Well, I hate to say I told ya so, but....yeah, I was right.

And Kaep sucks. He doesn't have the skills, and even if he did, he's a human cancer, and would destroy a locker room and fan base. That said, give him a chance to start and fail yet again.
 
Well, I hate to say I told ya so, but....yeah, I was right.

And Kaep sucks. He doesn't have the skills, and even if he did, he's a human cancer, and would destroy a locker room and fan base. That said, give him a chance to start and fail yet again.

Congrats, blind squirrels and what not.

And Kap has the skills proven over his career, especially in today’s league. And, even if he does “suck” he sucks less than many of the QB’s like I mentioned above who still have jobs.

And at this point, with the temperature of the league, the locker room would be behind him and your average fanbase probably wouldn’t care for the most part.

I’d gladly take him with the Eagles in Camp then Nate Sudfeld.
 
Yes, we have come along way? How? Was it through natural, evolution? Actions that were slow and developed over time and done peacefully and without division and controversy?

No, they were done through radical, revolution that was controversial and divisive. That’s how things get done in this country, always have, and most likely always will.
So all the gains that have been made in the last 60 years have been because of violent revolution? I've been alive for 42 of those years. What did I miss?
 
Congrats, blind squirrels and what not.

Nah, just an acute knowledge of college football.
And Kap has the skills proven over his career, especially in today’s league. And, even if he does “suck” he sucks less than many of the QB’s like I mentioned above who still have jobs.

I disagree he has the skills, but agree he's better than some backups.
And at this point, with the temperature of the league, the locker room would be behind him and your average fanbase probably wouldn’t care for the most part.

I’d gladly take him with the Eagles in Camp then Nate Sudfeld.
I disagree, but, am willing to see.
 
So all the gains that have been made in the last 60 years have been because of violent revolution? I've been alive for 42 of those years. What did I miss?

Did I say violent? Or radical, divisive, controversial? I believe I said the latter. But I’d certainly say that there was a tremendous amount of violence during the bulk of the movements.
 
Did I say violent? Or radical, divisive, controversial? I believe I said the latter. But I’d certainly say that there was a tremendous amount of violence during the bulk of the movements.
Ah yes you did say radical, probably had other things on my mind when I typed it
 
Did I say violent? Or radical, divisive, controversial? I believe I said the latter. But I’d certainly say that there was a tremendous amount of violence during the bulk of the movements.
So businesses hiring blacks to work was and is radical, you are not giving most their due for the hard work that they put in to get where they are. You are discounting alot of people who did nothing violent or radical, just put their nose to the grindstone and went to work every day. They earned where they are today, and made better lives for their children.
 
So businesses hiring blacks to work was and is radical, you are not giving most their due for the hard work that they put in to get where they are. You are discounting alot of people who did nothing violent or radical, just put their nose to the grindstone and went to work every day. They earned where they are today, and made better lives for their children.

I’m not discounting them at all. And yes, I’m some cases it was extremely radical. My Mom’s famiky has rocks thrown through their windows because they would let Black people walk in the front of the store and not the back. They treated “the help” like they were family and that was extremely radical at the time.

I’m merely pointing out that when people, and this isn’t just now, it’s gone through history, say they don’t like how things are going they don’t realize that change in this country happens revolutionary and not evolutionary, and there was a good amount of blood spilt on both sides for those said people to work and make better lives for generations after them.
 
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