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Copejunkie said:
In all seriousness though this part of the world has always had problems and wars between different cultures and peoples. The Ubaids, Akkadians,Elamites,Egyptians, Babalonians,Assyrians, Medes,the Achaemenid Persian empire, Greeks and Alexander the great, Romans, Abbasid caliphate, Mongols, Ottomans, the British and French, and to an extent now the USA. These people's ancestors have been fighting each other since the dawn of humanity, the only thing that they know and respect is force and power. You have to utterly destroy them to get your point across.
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Brother against brother for thousands of years.
 
Y'all I love each and every one of you here but I'm dead fucking against all this shit.

These kids don't need to look back in 10 years at their platoon graduation ceremony and be able to pick less living friends than dead friends.

I've been feeling shit today that I don't like feeling. This isn't going to be nice, this is going to be Anbar Province meets Kandahar Province only far better armed with better mechanized, sea and air power than we've fought in a long time.
 
CowpokeU said:
Y'all I love each and every one of you here but I'm dead fucking against all this shit.

These kids don't need to look back in 10 years at their platoon graduation ceremony and be able to pick less living friends than dead friends.

I've been feeling shit today that I don't like feeling. This isn't going to be nice, this is going to be Anbar Province meets Kandahar Province only far better armed with better mechanized, sea and air power than we've fought in a long time.
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My friend war is never nice. It isn’t pretty, and it isn’t something to be glamorized. It’s savage, brutal, and horrific. It’s also sometimes necessary. But if that is what happens, then do what’s needed to win it.
 
CowpokeU said:
Y'all I love each and every one of you here but I'm dead fucking against all this shit.

These kids don't need to look back in 10 years at their platoon graduation ceremony and be able to pick less living friends than dead friends.

I've been feeling shit today that I don't like feeling. This isn't going to be nice, this is going to be Anbar Province meets Kandahar Province only far better armed with better mechanized, sea and air power than we've fought in a long time.
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Oh I whole heartedly agree with you on some of your points, and I most certainly don't want another war with anybody, but on the flip side Iran has tried for far too long to come up with ways to embarass, kill, and bully us, our allies, and their neighbors. Now some of this is our fault, undoubtedly, but the ball is in Iran's court now, let's see how they try to respond, I personally don't think that they have the balls to take it to the next level. I believe that they will try to attack a "soft" target, probably an ally of ours or an installation, like what they just did in Baghdad, in the region, and claim retribution/victory whether it succeeds or not. For all their posturing and bluster deep down they know that if the yoke is taken off of our military they don't stand a chance. We could level their entire country in a matter of days if we wanted to. That's if we aren't worried about innocent people getting in the way. Which we always are. So yes, a war with them would cause us some casualties, the good thing is I really don't think we would have to go door to door there. Just remember they know a war with us means that they will loose power, that is more important to them than anything else.
 
Copejunkie said:
Oh I whole heartedly agree with you on some of your points, and I most certainly don't want another war with anybody, but on the flip side Iran has tried for far too long to come up with ways to embarass, kill, and bully us, our allies, and their neighbors. Now some of this is our fault, undoubtedly, but the ball is in Iran's court now, let's see how they try to respond, I personally don't think that they have the balls to take it to the next level. I believe that they will try to attack a "soft" target, probably an ally of ours or an installation, like what they just did in Baghdad, in the region, and claim retribution/victory whether it succeeds or not. For all their posturing and bluster deep down they know that if the yoke is taken off of our military they don't stand a chance. We could level their entire country in a matter of days if we wanted to. That's if we aren't worried about innocent people getting in the way. Which we always are. So yes, a war with them would cause us some casualties, the good thing is I really don't think we would have to go door to door there. Just remember they know a war with us means that they will loose power, that is more important to them than anything else.
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The might of the US military is unparalleled. If that is the direction those assholes decide to go, I just hope our leaders hit them with every conventional tool in the toolbox and wipe them from the face of the earth.
 
CowpokeU said:
Y'all I love each and every one of you here but I'm dead fucking against all this shit.
These kids don't need to look back in 10 years at their platoon graduation ceremony and be able to pick less living friends than dead friends.
I've been feeling shit today that I don't like feeling. This isn't going to be nice, this is going to be Anbar Province meets Kandahar Province only far better armed with better mechanized, sea and air power than we've fought in a long time.
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I respect your views and from all I can tell in a short time you as a person. Please don't take what I am about to say as any kind of criticism of you or your beliefs. I feel that if I can offer a slightly take on things you might find some comfort ...

Generally speaking for reasons that @Copejunkie has laid out, it is possible that this saved many a soldier/civilian lives. 9-11 was a direct result of our perceived weakness. Not that Clinton/Bush were necessarily weak and I am not placing blame for this thread, but for several reasons we were restrained in our reactions to their attacks and that lead to a perception of weakness in our leadership. I say perceived weakness because our cultures value different things and how we responded trying to avoid escalation to attacks did not target anything of value to them ... so they thought they could get away with literally anything. Now they know that is not the case and they will start making decisions knowing that there will be a serious response. They may choose to go all out but if that is the case, doing nothing was not going to change anything at all but spread out the body count over time. I hope I gave you something to think about, even if you think it through and still disagree.
 
batchaps4me said:
I respect your views and from all I can tell in a short time you as a person. Please don't take what I am about to say as any kind of criticism of you or your beliefs. I feel that if I can offer a slightly take on things you might find some comfort ...

Generally speaking for reasons that @Copejunkie has laid out, it is possible that this saved many a soldier/civilian lives. 9-11 was a direct result of our perceived weakness. Not that Clinton/Bush were necessarily weak and I am not placing blame for this thread, but for several reasons we were restrained in our reactions to their attacks and that lead to a perception of weakness in our leadership. I say perceived weakness because our cultures value different things and how we responded trying to avoid escalation to attacks did not target anything of value to them ... so they thought they could get away with literally anything. Now they know that is not the case and they will start making decisions knowing that there will be a serious response. They may choose to go all out but if that is the case, doing nothing was not going to change anything at all but spread out the body count over time. I hope I gave you something to think about, even if you think it through and still disagree.
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During Desert Storm, Saddam Hussein grievously underestimated the American resolve. In addition he took our compassion as a show of weakness and stated that Americans had no stomach for fighting. He was wrong on all accounts.
To quote Al Capone: Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me.”
 
RTR...USN (ret) said:
During Desert Storm, Saddam Hussein grievously underestimated the American resolve. In addition he took our compassion as a show of weakness and stated that Americans had no stomach for fighting. He was wrong on all accounts.
To quote Al Capone: Don't mistake my kindness for weakness. I am kind to everyone, but when someone is unkind to me, weak is not what you are going to remember about me.”
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It may be where I am just an old curmudgeon but at some point, it is on us to understand the difference and adjust. Sanctions are the go to response with good cause but to a different culture it may seem weak. Even if we choose to use force, it is not necessarily a one size fits all solution. The choice of target can say more than the size of the bomb. On the flip side, I try to give a lot of leeway because you can factor in things like chaos theory where the choice does not seem to match the desired outcome but in fact has a higher probably to achieve a stated goal. And even if we get everything right, there are always unintended consequences.
 
CowpokeU said:
Y'all I love each and every one of you here but I'm dead fucking against all this shit.

These kids don't need to look back in 10 years at their platoon graduation ceremony and be able to pick less living friends than dead friends.

I've been feeling shit today that I don't like feeling. This isn't going to be nice, this is going to be Anbar Province meets Kandahar Province only far better armed with better mechanized, sea and air power than we've fought in a long time.
Click to expand...
I don't think anyone here wants a war with anybody, much less Iran. The problem with Iran is they have been a thorn in everybody's side for forty years when they took our embassy in 1979. Intel shows they were about repeat that scenario forty years later. If we did nothing and they took hostages, they could dictate terms after ramping up production of refining weapons grade material for nukes. When they get nukes that thorn will become a dagger. Iran has constantly been the originator and escalator of hostilities.Reagan should have finished the job when he sank a third of their navy. Better yet, Carter should have supported the Shah from day one, else we could have had a powerful ally in the middle east, right now. Iran has been exporting terror and death for forty years. Nothing is changing with the current regime in place. If we do nothing, then expect another forty years of strife, or until they develope nukes and nuke Israel, as they already have stated they will do, then we likely will have a greater war to deal with. Isreal will likely strike before the nukes are ready, so we are at war anyway, supporting them. Hopefully the Iran people rise up and effect a change, the best scenario. Reducing Iran's military would help facilitate this. Whether or not it's us, a major military confrontation with Iran is going to happen, sooner than later, simply because of the nearly prepared nukes they have vowed to use on Isreal. If Iran had American hostages, that would not deter Isreal from attacking to save their citizens. God help us if we elect another appeaser, we will be decades cleaning up the mess, and more American lives lost. My opinion is at worst, this year, or later, we wipe out Iran's military capacity, but do not invade. A very large part of their populus is itching for freedom. 90% of Iran is Shia, so there shouldn't be any serious fighting with Sunni factions for control of the country if the regime is kicked out. Anyway, we need to act in our best interest. The days of isolationist policies died with Pearl Harbor. With proliferation of nukes, it is only a matter of time before a rogue nation sends a nuke, in a container ship, to one of our ports. Buckle up, the next few years are going to be rough, if we can't declaw some of these rouge nations.
 
War. To be avoided. But sometimes inevitable. Not only with the ragheads but if we do indeed get into a bigger battle over there, it's not just the casualties and other things. We also have to deal with the lamescreamedia and the left over here. If we have to, allright. But get it done and be done with it.
Like the bodies hung from the bridge in fallujah. If I'd been in charge that place would have been nothing more than a charred heap.
Being a nam era vet I understand playing footsie and political games with our blood. Make them shed theirs or leave it alone.
 
RuffledFeathers said:
I don't think anyone here wants a war with anybody, much less Iran. The problem with Iran is they have been a thorn in everybody's side for forty years when they took our embassy in 1979. Intel shows they were about repeat that scenario forty years later. If we did nothing and they took hostages, they could dictate terms after ramping up production of refining weapons grade material for nukes. When they get nukes that thorn will become a dagger. Iran has constantly been the originator and escalator of hostilities.Reagan should have finished the job when he sank a third of their navy. Better yet, Carter should have supported the Shah from day one, else we could have had a powerful ally in the middle east, right now. Iran has been exporting terror and death for forty years. Nothing is changing with the current regime in place. If we do nothing, then expect another forty years of strife, or until they develope nukes and nuke Israel, as they already have stated they will do, then we likely will have a greater war to deal with. Isreal will likely strike before the nukes are ready, so we are at war anyway, supporting them. Hopefully the Iran people rise up and effect a change, the best scenario. Reducing Iran's military would help facilitate this. Whether or not it's us, a major military confrontation with Iran is going to happen, sooner than later, simply because of the nearly prepared nukes they have vowed to use on Isreal. If Iran had American hostages, that would not deter Isreal from attacking to save their citizens. God help us if we elect another appeaser, we will be decades cleaning up the mess, and more American lives lost. My opinion is at worst, this year, or later, we wipe out Iran's military capacity, but do not invade. A very large part of their populus is itching for freedom. 90% of Iran is Shia, so there shouldn't be any serious fighting with Sunni factions for control of the country if the regime is kicked out. Anyway, we need to act in our best interest. The days of isolationist policies died with Pearl Harbor. With proliferation of nukes, it is only a matter of time before a rogue nation sends a nuke, in a container ship, to one of our ports. Buckle up, the next few years are going to be rough, if we can't declaw some of these rouge nations.
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//if we can't declaw some of these rouge nations.\\
It is not if we can't. We can. Thing is, will we?
 
What worries me more than anything right now is how divided our country is on Partisan lines. I've never seen it this bad.. I think we could be headed to another civil war.
 
Bama Believer said:
What worries me more than anything right now is how divided our country is on Partisan lines. I've never seen it this bad.. I think we could be headed to another civil war.
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I really can’t see a scenario where it reaches that point, but if it does our side has most of the guns and the knowledge and skill to use them. The other side doesn’t know which bathroom to use and that tide pods are not good to eat.
 
Let me preface my statement with the following disclaimer:

I am neither Democrat nor Republican. When I raised my right hand and swore to uphold the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic, that question was never asked of me. I am an American. No more American than anyone in our beloved country and certainly no less.

My frustrations with politics, notwithstanding, I have an opinion that puts BOTH sides of our disgustingly partisan leadership in the wrong.

When President Obama made the decision to hunt down and kill Osama Bin Laden, I praised his decision and his success. Clinton failed. Bush failed. Obama succeeded. The "Right" declared it "posturing" on his part. He killed the sonofabitch that was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent AMERICANS. Nobody in the media bothered to tally the number of Dems versus Reps that died on 9/11. They were AMERICANS. When Trump made the decision to kill an individual that was CLEARLY conspiring to cause harm and possible death to AMERICANS, I praise his decision. Will it potentially put other Americans in harms way? Yes. We have the most well trained, well equipped, and well prepared military forces in the world. Our "Media" won't show our citizens the details of this fact necessary to calm the natural "fear of the unknown". What we need to understand as a cohesive people is that "We The People" should be telling the "Media" and the 'Partisan politicians" what we want and need to know, not the other way around.

Sorry, I'm rambling.

Think about it like this......if the FBI had knowledge of an individual that was planning on killing numerous innocent Americans here in our own country, how would we feel as a country if the FBI killed him before he could kill anyone? This situation with the death of Soleimani is no different.

If my fellow brothers in arms have to take a fight to a foreign nation that has a longstanding history of supporting anti-American terrorists, I will pray for their well being with absolute knowledge that they believe as I do. We are AMERICANS. If you fuck with one of us, you will have to kill us all.
 
OldDevilDawg said:
Let me preface my statement with the following disclaimer:

I am neither Democrat nor Republican. When I raised my right hand and swore to uphold the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic, that question was never asked of me. I am an American. No more American than anyone in our beloved country and certainly no less.

My frustrations with politics, notwithstanding, I have an opinion that puts BOTH sides of our disgustingly partisan leadership in the wrong.

When President Obama made the decision to hunt down and kill Osama Bin Laden, I praised his decision and his success. Clinton failed. Bush failed. Obama succeeded. The "Right" declared it "posturing" on his part. He killed the sonofabitch that was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent AMERICANS. Nobody in the media bothered to tally the number of Dems versus Reps that died on 9/11. They were AMERICANS. When Trump made the decision to kill an individual that was CLEARLY conspiring to cause harm and possible death to AMERICANS, I praise his decision. Will it potentially put other Americans in harms way? Yes. We have the most well trained, well equipped, and well prepared military forces in the world. Our "Media" won't show our citizens the details of this fact necessary to calm the natural "fear of the unknown". What we need to understand as a cohesive people is that "We The People" should be telling the "Media" and the 'Partisan politicians" what we want and need to know, not the other way around.

Sorry, I'm rambling.

Think about it like this......if the FBI had knowledge of an individual that was planning on killing numerous innocent Americans here in our own country, how would we feel as a country if the FBI killed him before he could kill anyone? This situation with the death of Soleimani is no different.

If my fellow brothers in arms have to take a fight to a foreign nation that has a longstanding history of supporting anti-American terrorists, I will pray for their well being with absolute knowledge that they believe as I do. We are AMERICANS. If you fuck with one of us, you will have to kill us all.
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Very well said my dawg loving jarhead friend, well said!!!
 
OldDevilDawg said:
Let me preface my statement with the following disclaimer:

I am neither Democrat nor Republican. When I raised my right hand and swore to uphold the Constitution against ALL enemies, foreign and domestic, that question was never asked of me. I am an American. No more American than anyone in our beloved country and certainly no less.

My frustrations with politics, notwithstanding, I have an opinion that puts BOTH sides of our disgustingly partisan leadership in the wrong.

When President Obama made the decision to hunt down and kill Osama Bin Laden, I praised his decision and his success. Clinton failed. Bush failed. Obama succeeded. The "Right" declared it "posturing" on his part. He killed the sonofabitch that was personally responsible for the deaths of thousands of innocent AMERICANS. Nobody in the media bothered to tally the number of Dems versus Reps that died on 9/11. They were AMERICANS. When Trump made the decision to kill an individual that was CLEARLY conspiring to cause harm and possible death to AMERICANS, I praise his decision. Will it potentially put other Americans in harms way? Yes. We have the most well trained, well equipped, and well prepared military forces in the world. Our "Media" won't show our citizens the details of this fact necessary to calm the natural "fear of the unknown". What we need to understand as a cohesive people is that "We The People" should be telling the "Media" and the 'Partisan politicians" what we want and need to know, not the other way around.

Sorry, I'm rambling.

Think about it like this......if the FBI had knowledge of an individual that was planning on killing numerous innocent Americans here in our own country, how would we feel as a country if the FBI killed him before he could kill anyone? This situation with the death of Soleimani is no different.

If my fellow brothers in arms have to take a fight to a foreign nation that has a longstanding history of supporting anti-American terrorists, I will pray for their well being with absolute knowledge that they believe as I do. We are AMERICANS. If you fuck with one of us, you will have to kill us all.
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I believe as you do my brother, I wrote that blank check as well.
 
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