So, abortion.

batchaps4me said:
And here is a small solution: Planned Parenthood is already established in these communities and will still have the ability to provide free long acting birth control measures. You are protecting people that are educated on pregnancy but just don't care. And you are doing this at the expense of human life. Personally I am against all abortions with the exception of life of the mother but my libertarian beliefs lead me to accept that the decision should be on the mother until life ... using the same standards that doctors routinely use to determine time of death ... is confirmed.
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But masking abortion as a need because of "lack of sexual education" sounds so reasonable.
 
Toadman005 said:
But masking abortion as a need because of "lack of sexual education" sounds so reasonable.
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It's a very stupid and actually quite insulting argument. "Poor people don't know how babies are made." Reminds me of other Lefty arguments like "Black people don't know how to use the internet", and "Black people don't know where the DMV is."

Do these people really want the Lefties to speak for, or to, them?
 
Nod4Eight said:
It's a very stupid and actually quite insulting argument. "Poor people don't know how babies are made." Reminds me of other Lefty arguments like "Black people don't know how to use the internet", and "Black people don't know where the DMV is."

Do these people really want the Lefties to speak for, or to, them?
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Yeah I was trying to get Fleck to realize as much last night, but he seemed to not want to address it.

Abortions happen more amongst poor communities due to irresponsibility, which has nothing to do with education. It has everything to do with culture. Hell, for many poor women there is a financial incentive to have children out of wedlock for governmental $$$. SO, the child is raised fatherless as a bastard with no proper attention spent because the mother used it as a payday, not as a child to raise. The kid then turns out to be a delinquent, and is then used as evidence, "See poor people need abortion or the kids turn out to be criminal!" Uh, well, that's because the bastard's birthing person used the kid. But the answer isn't more abortion access....those kinds aren't getting 'em anyway and won't...teh answer is stop providing $$$ for the bastards, and those women will, what do you know, stop having them! Now, someone might say, "yeah, by having an aboprtion!" No. Remember, financial incentive was the reason behind teh kid. They're not gonna shell out hundreds of dollars (or is it thousands) 2-3 timers a year to abort...they'll either have less sex or have cautious sex. Which accomplishes both 1.) less bastards to be raised badly 2.) less babies slaughtered. And while we're at it, perhaps we should address a culture that so glorifies, normalizes, etc such irresponsible, casual, unprotected sex? Again, let us look to the Asian community...yes, married parents/fathers in teh household is a key, crucial factor in their success rate, but also, we must admit their culture of law adherence, emphasis on scholastics, and PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY factor in. They aren't being slutty and irresponsible, and thus, it all bears itself out. Is it racist to point out that among two minority demographics on both ends of the spectrum, it's cultural not physiological, cultural, not financial, that makes the larger difference. Asian women aren't aborting babies in record numbers, not because of "sex education" but for the same reason they're not offing each other in drive by gang warfare at teh same rate....because culturally, they're superior. It's less violent, less entitled, less promiscuous, less (cooing to claim to be) victimized, etc.
 
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As fas as abortions because of rape, incest, health, I am for.
As far as the rest, I am against.
As far as my tax dollars paying for abortions, paying mothers $$$ to have 20 kids they can not afford, to begin with, I am 100% against.
I am 100% in favor of personal responsibility.
 
Coincidence? Hardly...

The 2016 CCES asks a series of questions about abortion. Here they are (with the pro-life coding in parentheses):
  1. Always allow a woman to obtain an abortion as a matter of choice (Oppose =1)
  2. Prohibit all abortions after the 20th week of pregnancy (Support =1)
  3. Allow employers to decline coverage of abortions in insurance plans (Support =1)
  4. Prohibit the expenditure of funds authorized or appropriated by federal law for any abortion (Support = 1)
  5. Make abortions illegal in all circumstances (Support =1)


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I defy ANY progressive to deny that atheism and/or agnosticism do not correspond with the desire for abortion on demand...
 
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Tough subject for me. Libertarian as in is there is legitimate governmental interest in this, (think preamble to the constitution) vs my personal revulsion to chopping up a viable (able to live outside of mom) fetus and pulling it out of the mother. Contrast this with someone who says "I had unprotected sex a coupla nights ago, and want a pill to make sure I'm not" Quite a conundrum...
 
PSUTE said:
Tough subject for me. Libertarian as in is there is legitimate governmental interest in this, (think preamble to the constitution) vs my personal revulsion to chopping up a viable (able to live outside of mom) fetus and pulling it out of the mother. Contrast this with someone who says "I had unprotected sex a coupla nights ago, and want a pill to make sure I'm not" Quite a conundrum...
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I just find it rather odd that unprotected sex or regretted sex is something that we as a society say there should be no ramifications for. Especially given both drunken and regretted sex are used to cry 'rape" and can imprison men, to say nothing of a child brought to term being a financial responsibility for the man (rightly so) for 18 years. But a woman? Nooooo, can't have her burdened by such things!

A woman gets drunk and drives and she's jailed for drunk driving, has to pay for a DUI, etc.

Plow through someone while doing so, and that's manslaughter, jail time etc.

Steal something? Jailtime. Get angry and hit someone? Jailtime. Cuss at a cop? Ticket. Post stupid shit online? Probably fired. Etc etc, consequences, consequences.

Have sex, and get pregnant? It's cool, just kill it. No consequences!
 
Toadman005 said:
I just find it rather odd that unprotected sex or regretted sex is something that we as a society say there should be no ramifications for. Especially given both drunken and regretted sex are used to cry 'rape" and can imprison men, to say nothing of a child brought to term being a financial responsibility for the man (rightly so) for 18 years. But a woman? Nooooo, can't have her burdened by such things!

A woman gets drunk and drives and she's jailed for drunk driving, has to pay for a DUI, etc.

Plow through someone while doing so, and that's manslaughter, jail time etc.

Steal something? Jailtime. Get angry and hit someone? Jailtime. Cuss at a cop? Ticket. Post stupid shit online? Probably fired. Etc etc, consequences, consequences.

Have sex, and get pregnant? It's cool, just kill it. No consequences!
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But in the Lefts quest to tear down our society they are decriminalizing many of those other examples that you gave as well.

A healthy society does not endorse the killing of its next generation. Individuals will, and always have, made these decisions - just as there are individuals who murder, rape and steal. But it should not be legitimized by society.

It is easy to reconcile a pro-life stance with libertarianism. Generally speaking (as there are different types) libertarians value civil rights, natural rights and free markets. Therefore no one has a right to violate the civil rights of another. When an egg becomes fertilized it has unique DNA. Thats not just a part if the mothers body, it's genetic make up is unique and different than hers. Aborting the fetus (fetus is simply a stage in human development - such as infant, toddle, adolescence, geriatric etc) violates its civil rights.
 
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