Only Semi Political. Vaccine related...

OldDevilDawg said:
"Sheep" are in the middle?
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Yes. Akin to the old expression “a little education is a dangerous thing.” People who are educated just enough to be smart will therefore take just the presented info at face value and consider themselves well informed, with no irony. The less educated have valid hesitancy taking their knowledge from people and history rather than sources, and the best educated likely base their decisions on data and research they themselves have deep dived into. But notice only one side is lambasted, criticized and vilified. The less educated can be mocked as stupid and uninformed, and that excuse even justifying a need for mandated vaccination (or God forbid public schooling) “for their own good”, cuz those poor uneducated saps just don’t know any better. Those better educated than the talking heads and WASPy elites? Uh, well uhm, we just can’t figure that out but we can ignore it. Listen to the experts…even if the experts aren’t doing as they say we should do.
 
Everyone has their rights and everyone has their opinion. And here in America you are welcomed to both.

I am a stickler about personal freedoms and feel that people should have a choice in their loves and how they want to live it. In this situation I would say this.

For months we heard "if you don't want to risk getting the virus stay home stay safe let everyone else go out in public" Now that there is a vaccine available the argument is still that. And that is the part I don't get. The pro vaccine should just use that same talking point. If are disinclined to get it. Cool. Stay home. That is your personal choice. Because at the end of the day you shouldn't able to use your personal choice to endanger others. And that is what is happening there.

My daughter has a terrific performance and singing future in front of her. Her entire line of career choice has been shut down for 2 years because of the fear that singing spreads the virus. And also it is being found out that a lot of people that get this. End up with lung and breathing issues long after the virus itself is gone. So it dangerous for them to do their passion and what they get paid for. Because others are against doing what they can help stop the spread. The saying should be that your personal freedoms are just that. Personal. Once your personal choices endanger or hamper the public they aren't personal anymore. They are shared risk. And there is no life libery and pursuit of shared risk in the founders worldview ;)

Just my. 02 cents.
 
I was at the MD several weeks ago for routine stuff. The nurse said that her father currently has COVID after receiving both vaccinations. Maybe he had it before the shots? I didnt ask. WTF?
 
Irishblooded said:
Everyone has their rights and everyone has their opinion. And here in America you are welcomed to both.

I am a stickler about personal freedoms and feel that people should have a choice in their loves and how they want to live it. In this situation I would say this.

For months we heard "if you don't want to risk getting the virus stay home stay safe let everyone else go out in public" Now that there is a vaccine available the argument is still that. And that is the part I don't get. The pro vaccine should just use that same talking point. If are disinclined to get it. Cool. Stay home. That is your personal choice. Because at the end of the day you shouldn't able to use your personal choice to endanger others. And that is what is happening there.

My daughter has a terrific performance and singing future in front of her. Her entire line of career choice has been shut down for 2 years because of the fear that singing spreads the virus. And also it is being found out that a lot of people that get this. End up with lung and breathing issues long after the virus itself is gone. So it dangerous for them to do their passion and what they get paid for. Because others are against doing what they can help stop the spread. The saying should be that your personal freedoms are just that. Personal. Once your personal choices endanger or hamper the public they aren't personal anymore. They are shared risk. And there is no life libery and pursuit of shared risk in the founders worldview ;)

Just my. 02 cents.
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As you said, everyone has their rights and opinions. I'm curious what the numbers are for people who DON'T have underlying medical issues. All of us are bombarded from the media about how dangerous Covid is for those that are fatasses that eat at McDonald's every day....for those that smoke 3 packs a day......for those that sit on their ass all day every day. The lowest survivability rate I've seen from Covid in around 97%. I'm a 55 year old fatass smoker that refuses to get a Flu shot every year. I like my chances at 97%. I look at the fact that science has now proven that vaccinated can still get it, and spread it, and realize that if you chose to get vaccinated, whether I do or not only makes it dangerous for me and others that refuse to get the shot.

Based on the statistics on vaccinated versus unvaxxed, it is not a "shared risk".
 
Irishblooded said:
Everyone has their rights and everyone has their opinion. And here in America you are welcomed to both.

I am a stickler about personal freedoms and feel that people should have a choice in their loves and how they want to live it. In this situation I would say this.

For months we heard "if you don't want to risk getting the virus stay home stay safe let everyone else go out in public" Now that there is a vaccine available the argument is still that. And that is the part I don't get. The pro vaccine should just use that same talking point. If are disinclined to get it. Cool. Stay home. That is your personal choice. Because at the end of the day you shouldn't able to use your personal choice to endanger others. And that is what is happening there.

My daughter has a terrific performance and singing future in front of her. Her entire line of career choice has been shut down for 2 years because of the fear that singing spreads the virus. And also it is being found out that a lot of people that get this. End up with lung and breathing issues long after the virus itself is gone. So it dangerous for them to do their passion and what they get paid for. Because others are against doing what they can help stop the spread. The saying should be that your personal freedoms are just that. Personal. Once your personal choices endanger or hamper the public they aren't personal anymore. They are shared risk. And there is no life libery and pursuit of shared risk in the founders worldview ;)

Just my. 02 cents.
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Question… how are the unvaccinated not staying home endangering anyone? The vaccine is supposed to protect against, so those that have it shouldn’t fear those that don’t, as those that have it shouldn’t be at risk. At the same time, the delta strain apparently the vaccines cannot prevent one from catching, so vaccinated or not it’s transmissible. Society cannot stay shut down. So, again - why do those that have had the shot care about those that haven’t?
 
Hard2Bluff said:
With the new variants, its going to come down to herd immunity. I dont put faith in what anyone else says. We can try, but thats it.
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They’re already conditioning the populace with the “looming threat” of the “next strain” expected “sometime in the fall”, a “doomsday variant”.

Blow me. Their overhype of delta did its job and got more people stuck in the arm but then it slowed again so the NEXT one is the REAL DEAL you guys!! Be afraid! Be very afraid!
 
Toadman005 said:
Question… how are the unvaccinated not staying home endangering anyone? The vaccine is supposed to protect against, so those that have it shouldn’t fear those that don’t, as those that have it shouldn’t be at risk. At the same time, the delta strain apparently the vaccines cannot prevent one from catching, so vaccinated or not it’s transmissible. Society cannot stay shut down. So, again - why do those that have had the shot care about those that haven’t?
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I read an article that those who have had the vaccines are "super spreaders." I have had both shots of Moderna. I dont wear a mask unless required...
 
Toadman005 said:
Question… how are the unvaccinated not staying home endangering anyone? The vaccine is supposed to protect against, so those that have it shouldn’t fear those that don’t, as those that have it shouldn’t be at risk. At the same time, the delta strain apparently the vaccines cannot prevent one from catching, so vaccinated or not it’s transmissible. Society cannot stay shut down. So, again - why do those that have had the shot care about those that haven’t?
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Keep the correct argument.

1. This virus has never been about the death count. The survivability of it is overwhelmingly good as long as there isn't underlying circumstances. Such as poor immune systems underlying health issues etc.

2. Just as don't know the long term conditions of the vaccination. We also don't know the long conditions of allowing this virus to continue to feed on the unprepared ahd continue to morph. Keep in mind just like the flu. Covid is a living organism that mutates and restructures itself as it gets more samples. So having large populated areas that choose not to vaccinate to help stop spread allows the virus to to alter itself into the different strains we keep seeing. Most of the mutations we have seen especially here in America didn't start in America. They started and came here and then once they gained a foot hold in unvaccinated populations they took off. With Delta it is particularly tricky because it is well entrenched in population centers that also have very low vaccination rates.

3. The real damage of the virus is what it hampers. You fill up hosptials with people that are suffering and need medical attention and you don't have beds for people that need treatment that we already had. Such as heart attacks, injuries, etc. And to top it off. If someone is injured they cannot just be wheeled into an ER with X amount of covid patients in it because of the current rate of transmission. And then you suck up the time of the health care agencies causing others to suffer because another group wouldn't take precautions to stop from going to the hospital.

4. In areas where this is raging you are seeing down turns in profits in all sectors not in some way medically related from missed work to missing customers. Which is hurting tye local economies and municipalities in tax income.

5. Even though the mortality rate is low. It isn't low enough. Yes something is going to kill you. And if you are already sick you might live through that to die of this. But once you put in the law of large numbers. 1 or 2 percent of 150 or 200 million is a pretty substantial number when you are talking about lives. And a large portion of those could have been reduced by vaccination rates being higher.

So again. It is your personal choice to get vaccinated. You don't want this medicine in you. Cool. You do you. However if I was a company owner that relied on foot traffic and employees showing up. Darn tooting I would require that on my personal property. I know that isn't fair. But no one ever said life is fair. They said life is life.
 
Irishblooded said:
4. In areas where this is raging you are seeing down turns in profits in all sectors not in some way medically related from missed work to missing customers. Which is hurting tye local economies and municipalities in tax income.
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I live in one of 7 counties in the state of Georgia that have been declared a Delta variant "hot spot". I can assure you that I have discussed Covid more here on-line than I have in my home town. Most here don't even care enough to pay attention to the media blown out of proportion story anymore. All of us are still going to work. Our local economy is still shit, same as it has been for decades. We've been burying our loved ones our entire life. We really don't give a shit what we die from because we were gonna die anyway. Give me one reason to think that exposure and naturally built antibodies are unacceptable versus getting a shot that isn't even FDA approved and I'll probably ask you another question. In the meantime, my refusal to get a shot that I feel is completely unnecessary, same way I feel about Flu shots, well shoot me for being an "ignorant asshole that doesn't give a shit for my fellow man".
 
OldDevilDawg said:
I live in one of 7 counties in the state of Georgia that have been declared a Delta variant "hot spot". I can assure you that I have discussed Covid more here on-line than I have in my home town. Most here don't even care enough to pay attention to the media blown out of proportion story anymore. All of us are still going to work. Our local economy is still shit, same as it has been for decades. We've been burying our loved ones our entire life. We really don't give a shit what we die from because we were gonna die anyway. Give me one reason to think that exposure and naturally built antibodies are unacceptable versus getting a shot that isn't even FDA approved and I'll probably ask you another question. In the meantime, my refusal to get a shot that I feel is completely unnecessary, same way I feel about Flu shots, well shoot me for being an "ignorant asshole that doesn't give a shit for my fellow man".
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Cool.

Again. I'm not here to say I'm right and you're wrong. I came to post my opinion on it. My guess is that everyone that has posted in this thread has done the exact same amount of actual research on this. Which is none. All of us have only what information is supplied to us in whatever way we accept receiving it. Rather that is Google searches, videos, conversation with others, etc. So in this I will defer to the expertise of both sides that have done actual research and identified results.
 
Irishblooded said:
Cool.

Again. I'm not here to say I'm right and you're wrong. I came to post my opinion on it. My guess is that everyone that has posted in this thread has done the exact same amount of actual research on this. Which is none. All of us have only what information is supplied to us in whatever way we accept receiving it. Rather that is Google searches, videos, conversation with others, etc. So in this I will defer to the expertise of both sides that have done actual research and identified results.
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I'm not bright enough to do the research but I'm very fortunate a have a couple of very intelligent friends that have done the research and they were in line to get the shot as soon as they were eligible. One of them is an Radiologist and has seen first hand the damage that covid can cause even to the survivors.
I lost a brother to covid and had a close friend that was on a respirator for almost two months but was able to pull through.
 
Irishblooded said:
Cool.

Again. I'm not here to say I'm right and you're wrong. I came to post my opinion on it. My guess is that everyone that has posted in this thread has done the exact same amount of actual research on this. Which is none. All of us have only what information is supplied to us in whatever way we accept receiving it. Rather that is Google searches, videos, conversation with others, etc. So in this I will defer to the expertise of both sides that have done actual research and identified results.
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I do not watch any of the media I do my own research...my apologies for seeming to respond in a bitter way. I have no idea who's right or who's wrong, but I know what my thoughts are based on my research.
 
Irishblooded said:
Keep the correct argument.

1. This virus has never been about the death count. The survivability of it is overwhelmingly good as long as there isn't underlying circumstances. Such as poor immune systems underlying health issues etc.

2. Just as don't know the long term conditions of the vaccination. We also don't know the long conditions of allowing this virus to continue to feed on the unprepared ahd continue to morph. Keep in mind just like the flu. Covid is a living organism that mutates and restructures itself as it gets more samples. So having large populated areas that choose not to vaccinate to help stop spread allows the virus to to alter itself into the different strains we keep seeing. Most of the mutations we have seen especially here in America didn't start in America. They started and came here and then once they gained a foot hold in unvaccinated populations they took off. With Delta it is particularly tricky because it is well entrenched in population centers that also have very low vaccination rates.

3. The real damage of the virus is what it hampers. You fill up hosptials with people that are suffering and need medical attention and you don't have beds for people that need treatment that we already had. Such as heart attacks, injuries, etc. And to top it off. If someone is injured they cannot just be wheeled into an ER with X amount of covid patients in it because of the current rate of transmission. And then you suck up the time of the health care agencies causing others to suffer because another group wouldn't take precautions to stop from going to the hospital.

4. In areas where this is raging you are seeing down turns in profits in all sectors not in some way medically related from missed work to missing customers. Which is hurting tye local economies and municipalities in tax income.

5. Even though the mortality rate is low. It isn't low enough. Yes something is going to kill you. And if you are already sick you might live through that to die of this. But once you put in the law of large numbers. 1 or 2 percent of 150 or 200 million is a pretty substantial number when you are talking about lives. And a large portion of those could have been reduced by vaccination rates being higher.

So again. It is your personal choice to get vaccinated. You don't want this medicine in you. Cool. You do you. However if I was a company owner that relied on foot traffic and employees showing up. Darn tooting I would require that on my personal property. I know that isn't fair. But no one ever said life is fair. They said life is life.
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Will respond properly when not on my phone (a lengthy reply to an hugest question deserves a proper reply). Apologies until then, but thank you for answering.
 
the "vaccine" doesnt prevent contraction -
the "vaccine" doesnt prevent transmission -
the virus will continue to mutate,
thru host-to-host transmittal,
regardless of "vaccination" status -
in fact, it could be argued
that the "vaccination" is promoting mutation and variants,
as the virus evolves/improves its attack characteristics -

cheers, brothers!
 
TechRaiderRider said:
the "vaccine" doesnt prevent contraction -
the "vaccine" doesnt prevent transmission -
the virus will continue to mutate,
thru host-to-host transmittal,
regardless of "vaccination" status -
in fact, it could be argued
that the "vaccination" is promoting mutation and variants,
as the virus evolves/improves its attack characteristics -

cheers, brothers!
Click to expand...
This, near verbatim, was to be part of my reply.
 
TechRaiderRider said:
the "vaccine" doesnt prevent contraction -
the "vaccine" doesnt prevent transmission -
the virus will continue to mutate,
thru host-to-host transmittal,
regardless of "vaccination" status -
in fact, it could be argued
that the "vaccination" is promoting mutation and variants,
as the virus evolves/improves its attack characteristics -

cheers, brothers!
Click to expand...

Yep.

I choose living until I die over dying until they bury me.
 
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