Anyone near the train derailment?

babylonbee.com

Ilhan Omar Withdraws Support For East Palestine After Learning It’s In America

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Representative Ilhan Omar has canceled a planned rally to support the victims of the East Palestine chemical spill after learning East Palestine is actually in America.
babylonbee.com babylonbee.com

WASHINGTON, D.C. — Representative Ilhan Omar has canceled a planned rally to support the victims of the East Palestine chemical spill after learning East Palestine is actually in America.

"Oh... East Palestine is just a small town in Ohio? Is that where all the white people live?" said a disappointed Omar to her brother while they were out on a Valentine's Day date. "Who cares about Ohio? Some trains did something. Who cares?"
Sources say the planned rally was going to raise funds for the thousands of people who are getting sick and dying after hostile forces burned thousands of gallons of toxic chemicals and poisoned the water for miles around. "That sounds like something the evil Zionists would do," said Omar. "I was looking forward to leading a 'Death to Israel' chant! Bummer!"

At publishing time, Omar had blamed the train derailment and ensuing ecological disaster on the Jews.
 
So here is when this is done here is what I expect to find out.

When a train 'originates' or is first put together. As they leave that initial terminal it is common that a yard worker will watch the train depart visually to watch and listen for sticky brakes or other flaws. Obviously if that was done it means it left the yard in road worthy condition

Depending on the section of track about 20 to 40 miles you will have what is called a 'HBD' or defect detector. And here is where the issue really starts with Precision Railroading. In the old days as your train went over one. The detector would scan the temp of every axle that went over it, and count the numbers of axles. Once your train completed passing one. A message would be broadcasted over the radio that would say something like 'NS detector mile post XX.X and then would either say number of axles and no defects'. Or it would have a tone and that would let you know it found an issue and would tell you an axle number it found hot. If that happened you would then radio the dispatcher for that section of track let them know about it. They would pull the record of the and they would be able to see what the reading was on that detector. And then also what it was on the previous one. And then let you know if you needed to stop the train and the conductor physically walk back to that area and inspect that physical axle.

Here is what has changed. That report now goes directly to the dispatcher. And they get a pop up alert on their computer screen when an axle pops hot. And it will also tell them the 'trending' temp on it and how it read on previous detectors. And then they inform the crew on the train on what action to take. However. With Precision Railroading you have 1/2 the dispatchers you did previously watching 2 to 3 times the amount of territory.

But you are going to say 'Hey Blaine you told us earlier that Precision Railroading has less trains that are longer you don't need as many dispatchers' You are right. The problem is that these trains. When an issue like this pops up. Causes major issues. Because with them being so long if an issue like this pops up it ties up the whole railroad for dozens of miles in both directions. And that is where the corporate wrinkle comes in. If they find that this axle was trending hot, but they ignored it in order to keep the railroad OK time. That is the companies worst case scenario for lawsuits. And I promise you part of the reason they haven't released any information about those findings or process is they are trying to find who in that process they can throw under the bus to limit their liability. And then design a changed process for the PR side of it.
 
Shocker. NTSB released an initial report today. A wheel bearing looks to have failed.

Something literally every railroader knew about 5 minutes after it was reported that it derailed.

As you see reports released and people spin this. The important thing to listen to or for.

As the train traveled the rails. It went over defect detectors. It is important to know what the range was set for on the temp of those readers. And then if / when a defect was found. Did it broadcast that over the radio to the crew in the train to report to the dispatcher. Or did it send those results to the desk in Atlanta for them to investigate. And regardless of who it went to. What was done with the information. Because I can promise you that axle warned the railroad before it failed
 
Listening to the press conference today. Was great to hear the NTSB state that they did not find any wrong doing by the crew. I have absolutely been waiting to hear that in a different direction.

One thing they did bring up was that the derailment happened while the engineer was "dynamic braking".

What's that mean? Trains have multiple types of braking systems. And as long as the train has any real speed at the time going the one least likely to cause separation issues is the "dynamic brake". It works by basically stealing kinetic energy from the train moving to assert stopping power to the electric traction motors that power the engine wheels.

That the train derailed while they were using this brake is more of coincidence then anything caused by the braking itself.

They did say that the train went over 3 different detectors and each one picked up the bearing hotter than the outside temp, and trending higher each time. And from the temp readings they reported at the press conference. The 2nd detector in a sane world should have caused them to stop and have tue conductor walk back and visually inspect the axle.

The (un)said reason that most likely didn't happen. Is that the train was so long. That if they stopped it to do this. They would have stopped every other train behind them. And clogged up the railroad. Tracks aren't like roads. You can't just pass the train in front of you. You need a way around it. And in that area there isn't a good way to do that. When you are working with trains longer than 7000 feet. So this as bad as it sounds. Happened because of lack of convenience.

As I find out more. I'll keep posting here to battle the BS you will see on TV. If you have questions let me know
 
Irishblooded said:
Listening to the press conference today. Was great to hear the NTSB state that they did not find any wrong doing by the crew. I have absolutely been waiting to hear that in a different direction.

One thing they did bring up was that the derailment happened while the engineer was "dynamic braking".

What's that mean? Trains have multiple types of braking systems. And as long as the train has any real speed at the time going the one least likely to cause separation issues is the "dynamic brake". It works by basically stealing kinetic energy from the train moving to assert stopping power to the electric traction motors that power the engine wheels.

That the train derailed while they were using this brake is more of coincidence then anything caused by the braking itself.

They did say that the train went over 3 different detectors and each one picked up the bearing hotter than the outside temp, and trending higher each time. And from the temp readings they reported at the press conference. The 2nd detector in a sane world should have caused them to stop and have tue conductor walk back and visually inspect the axle.

The (un)said reason that most likely didn't happen. Is that the train was so long. That if they stopped it to do this. They would have stopped every other train behind them. And clogged up the railroad. Tracks aren't like roads. You can't just pass the train in front of you. You need a way around it. And in that area there isn't a good way to do that. When you are working with trains longer than 7000 feet. So this as bad as it sounds. Happened because of lack of convenience.

As I find out more. I'll keep posting here to battle the BS you will see on TV. If you have questions let me know
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I understand everything you have explained with each post. I have zero questions. I don't know what I don't know, but I do know more than most. Thank you for your "behind the scenes" knowledge. I will admit that I'm not surprised at all, though. Business dollars don't give a shit if people die in the process.
 
Irishblooded said:
Listening to the press conference today. Was great to hear the NTSB state that they did not find any wrong doing by the crew. I have absolutely been waiting to hear that in a different direction.

One thing they did bring up was that the derailment happened while the engineer was "dynamic braking".

What's that mean? Trains have multiple types of braking systems. And as long as the train has any real speed at the time going the one least likely to cause separation issues is the "dynamic brake". It works by basically stealing kinetic energy from the train moving to assert stopping power to the electric traction motors that power the engine wheels.

That the train derailed while they were using this brake is more of coincidence then anything caused by the braking itself.

They did say that the train went over 3 different detectors and each one picked up the bearing hotter than the outside temp, and trending higher each time. And from the temp readings they reported at the press conference. The 2nd detector in a sane world should have caused them to stop and have tue conductor walk back and visually inspect the axle.

The (un)said reason that most likely didn't happen. Is that the train was so long. That if they stopped it to do this. They would have stopped every other train behind them. And clogged up the railroad. Tracks aren't like roads. You can't just pass the train in front of you. You need a way around it. And in that area there isn't a good way to do that. When you are working with trains longer than 7000 feet. So this as bad as it sounds. Happened because of lack of convenience.

As I find out more. I'll keep posting here to battle the BS you will see on TV. If you have questions let me know
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I 'think' they said on the news that once it hit the third sensor it automatically braked? My question is, was there something else they could have done to stop the derailment once they knew the second sensor went off? And could it have been any better/ worse since they stopped it at this particular time? I know nothing about easing a train to a stop to prevent a derailment. Seems like they just hit the emergency break, like in a car, it is the last resort. They could not have eased it more? Again, Im ignorant about this.
 
Hard2Bluff said:
I 'think' they said on the news that once it hit the third sensor it automatically braked? My question is, was there something else they could have done to stop the derailment once they knew the second sensor went off? And could it have been any better/ worse since they stopped it at this particular time? I know nothing about easing a train to a stop to prevent a derailment. Seems like they just hit the emergency break, like in a car, it is the last resort. They could not have eased it more? Again, Im ignorant about this.
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It didn't automatically brake. There isn't any systems on board that causes the brakes to apply because of a remote system. They are all controlled locally.

What happened is once the train completed going over the 3rd detector they received a warning on their radio letting them know there was a temp defect. And then (and they haven't said yet) either the engineer proactively just took measures to stop the train. Or if they used the radio to contact the dispatcher let them know what the detector said and were then ordered to stop the train.

There is an emergency brake. And there is a controller available for both the conductor and engineer to to access it in the cab. But they didn't here. And it is better that they didn't. The emergency brake is linked to the air brake system. The way that system differs from the dynamic brake. Is to think of like a semi truck. The way it moves is by having enough air pressure in the line to allow the brakes on the axles to unapply, allowing the wheels to turn. And when the driver applies the air brakes it reduces the air in the supply line and that causes the brakes to apply. Same thing for a train. The engineer can reduce the air in the main service line which travels the entire length of the train. Almost like a 'bubble' of pressure change, and it travels the length of the train. And as the bubble gets to each car is causes the brakes to apply. Under normal circumstances that is perfectly safe. However if you don't know the condition of the cars because of the detector it is not a good way to stop because it can cause more stress on the train and brake it in two.


Let me know if that makes sense
 
Irishblooded said:
The (un)said reason that most likely didn't happen. Is that the train was so long. That if they stopped it to do this. They would have stopped every other train behind them. And clogged up the railroad. Tracks aren't like roads. You can't just pass the train in front of you. You need a way around it. And in that area there isn't a good way to do that. When you are working with trains longer than 7000 feet. So this as bad as it sounds. Happened because of lack of convenience.
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This is what I meant when comparing the railroads to just in time manufacturing processes. When you operate any business, process, or system in a manner that does not allow for interruptions to a cycle, safety is the first thing sacrificed for the sake of the schedule.
 
batchaps4me said:
This is what I meant when comparing the railroads to just in time manufacturing processes. When you operate any business, process, or system in a manner that does not allow for interruptions to a cycle, safety is the first thing sacrificed for the sake of the schedule.
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90% of the rails in the country are not equipped for these gigantic trains of today. How this would normally happen. Is let's say you are in front of me. The dispatcher will find a side track (siding) that is only a small spur that has an entrance and exit to the main line and put me in it and allow you to stay on the main track and pass me. However most of these siding tracks are not long enough to hold a train that is so long. So there isn't a way for you to pass me.

So instead what would need to happen is that I would have to stop my train and wait for you while tye conductor got off the train. Walked back to the trouble car. Cut the train just after it. And then set that car off on a side track. And then ran the rest of the train back to where you left tye other half. Put it all back together. And started to move down the tracks again. And that process depending. Could have taken a couple of hours. And that right there. I would be willing to bet. Is why this wasn't done. Because that means every train behind that train was going to be held up. And then they would have needed replacement crews for all of those trains.
 
Irishblooded said:
90% of the rails in the country are not equipped for these gigantic trains of today. How this would normally happen. Is let's say you are in front of me. The dispatcher will find a side track (siding) that is only a small spur that has an entrance and exit to the main line and put me in it and allow you to stay on the main track and pass me. However most of these siding tracks are not long enough to hold a train that is so long. So there isn't a way for you to pass me.

So instead what would need to happen is that I would have to stop my train and wait for you while tye conductor got off the train. Walked back to the trouble car. Cut the train just after it. And then set that car off on a side track. And then ran the rest of the train back to where you left tye other half. Put it all back together. And started to move down the tracks again. And that process depending. Could have taken a couple of hours. And that right there. I would be willing to bet. Is why this wasn't done. Because that means every train behind that train was going to be held up. And then they would have needed replacement crews for all of those trains.
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It’s interesting hearing your thoughts about this, and it all makes sense. The thread about this on rivals is 13 pages of Down’s syndrome.
 
midcal said:
It’s interesting hearing your thoughts about this, and it all makes sense. The thread about this on rivals is 13 pages of Down’s syndrome.
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I don't go over there at all. So I don't know about all that. But I can guess the kind of stuff being said. If you have questions or anyone there wants to message me I'll be happy to help explain.

One thing I know a lot of people bring up is the controlled burn. And I am very interested in seeing post investigation if the controlled release outweighed the risk of explosion. It was one of those lose - lose situations. And someone had to make a decision on which option was better. Without the advantage of hindsight.

And then lastly. There were multiple cars carrying refined oil. Used in lubrication and fuel additives. It isn't ol fashioned crude or fracking oil. And most of the companies that make that. Have proprietary blends that they don't have to list. And there was about 60k gallons of this on board. And the cars were listed as breached. But no one knows the amount of leakage yet. Overall that is the most dangerous thing going on. And could be the biggest potential gut punch in the future.
 
Hard2Bluff said:
www.foxnews.com

Michigan, Texas officials unaware Ohio contaminated soil, water, taken to their areas: 'We were sandbagged'

Officials from both Michigan and Texas say they were unaware that soil and water from the site of the East Palestine train derailment was taken to their areas.
www.foxnews.com www.foxnews.com
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Some of that seems like it is over blown. There are private companies all over the country that different industries use to dispose of waste after this kind of thing. Barring the explosion etc. This is just like any other derailment and that happens hundreds of times a year.

I am willing to bet someone along the line was just following SoP post event to get rid of contaminated waste. But also it wouldn't surprise me at all if NS 'forgot' to let anyone know what they were doing.

Railroad executives are some of the dirtiest executives in the world. And stock prices rule everything. They need this to get buried in the lifetime section and America to move on to the next outrage as fast as possible. And that is why you are seeing the politics to it, who should resign, who was responsible for what and when. I can promise you, without a doubt in my heart that comes from the spin room at NS. They need the publis arguing about that. To help absolve the railroad of the fact it was their train that started the whole thing in the first place.
 
Today the NS CEO is in DC taking questions.

I don't expect to really learn anything new. But I am sure there will be plenty of politicing and cheap shots taken on both sides.
 
Why in the world does anyone go 'give me a yes or no answer' knowing that there isn't a chance that they are going to answer yes / no.
 
Sen. Graham just asked if "Precision Schedule Railroading" caused this.

That isn't an action. That is a process. In football world, that is like saying 'I run a West Coast Offense' when discussing the run and pass game to score points. It is series of decisions involving an overall practice by the company, not just a single event.

And the short answer is... Yes, it absolutely did.
 
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